DONOR EGG Tmt Thread... " Egg-heads"

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rhall00
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Post by rhall00 » Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:43 am

Welcome ltaylor! I don't have any answers for you as I'm 34 and my RE has never seen a case like mine before and he's been in practice for over 20 years. It took us a long time to come to terms with DE but we decided to move forward with it and I'm glad we did.

We're actually doing a FET sometime in July, probably in the first half. My RE wants to try assisted hatching this time so we're keeping our fingers crossed. Now I'm just trying to stay calm waiting for AF sometime in the next week or so.

Hi to everyone out there! If you can believe it, my job is still wonderful! I had some dog shows this weekend and it was soo hot (around 95 degrees F and very humid). Even with that I still love my job. Hope everyone is doing well and great things are happening with you!

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Ghost
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Re: Question-Egg Quality issues

Post by Ghost » Thu Jun 19, 2008 1:03 am

ltaylor wrote:Ladies,

I’m sorry to crash your thread but I have a question I am hoping someone can answer. Long story short-After IVF #5 and another miscarriage, my RE suspects egg quality issues. He thought this before we started and so we did PGD. However, we had 4 of 12 come back as normal and transferred 3. He said that I am only the second patient that has done PDG that has come back with more than 3 (it is only done on select patients). That being said, I met with him yesterday as a follow up and he still thinks egg quality is at play. He said PGD only tests for 10 of the chromosomes and it could even be something other than a chromosome issue. He also said that given my age, 50-60% should have come back normal. His recommendation was donor eggs (DH has no sperm issues).

DH and I had already decided on adoption but you know how life can be, after adoption we may end up back on the IVF wagon with DE. It occurred to me as I was driving away from his office that I forgot to ask an important question.

What causes a 34 year old person to have egg issues? I realize the older people get that their egg quality goes down but that is the only reason I know about. Is there anything a person can do to improve their egg quality? I have always been a great responder, somewhere around 56 eggs with 4 fresh cycles and we have 2 frosties. I’m just trying to put the pieces together and hope someone can help. Thanks!

L
From what you've posted, I'm not sure you have serious egg issues and I tend to doubt you need a donor. But clinics tend to blame the embryos. They transfer some embryos that look good and nothing happens. Must be the embryos, right? Wrong.

Jerome Check ran some interesting studies years ago. He has long had this "free IVF" program for patients who have good response and are willing to share their eggs as egg donors, while keeping some for themselves. He quickly noticed that the recipients of the donated eggs got pregnant much more often than those donors who got their own eggs. Now, since these were splits from the same sets of eggs, there was no way to blame the eggs. Turns out ovarian stimulation impairs endometrial receptivity. That's why the donors using their own eggs had more failures, because they just underwent stimulation. The donor recipients did not.

It seems a non-receptive endometrium is a major cause of IVF cycle failure. Yes, using an egg donor will fix endometrial receptivity issues, but not primarily because of the eggs. It's because of the lack of ovarian stimulation in the female receiving the transferred embryos in a donor cycle.

Of course, there are some women who cannot produce eggs, almost always over 40 years old, and obviously these women need egg donors.

Keep in mind that, in the US, most clinics report their data to SART and all are required to report to the CDC (usually through SART). The reports from SART and the CDC reflect the percentage of cycles that result in live birth. Accepting patients with prior failures, who are now a little more likely to fail, will decrease the live birth rates and make the clinic look bad. Hence there is some pressure to divert patients into donor IVF more often than necessary.

I don't know what clinic you are using, and I am speaking only very generally.
Last edited by Ghost on Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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chriss
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Post by chriss » Thu Jun 19, 2008 12:22 pm

Hey there, just crashing in on your thread to ask a question...

Ghost, regarding your last message... how can endometrium receptivity be checked? How can RE know if that's an issue? What can be done during a fresh cycle?

Thanks, chriss
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Ghost
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Post by Ghost » Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:13 pm

chriss wrote:Hey there, just crashing in on your thread to ask a question...

Ghost, regarding your last message... how can endometrium receptivity be checked? How can RE know if that's an issue? What can be done during a fresh cycle?

Thanks, chriss
I don't know a good way to check it at the proper time without disturbing it. Yes, they can take a biopsy, but you don't want to do that while an embryo is (hopefully) implanting. The biopsy studies available have been mostly run in egg donors, who were not receiving transfers, and in women in normal menstrual cycles. The donors had significantly advanced endometria when compared to the women in the natural condition.

But the leap to donor IVF merely because some transferred embryos did not implant is very hasty. Consider an FET cycle instead. Some clinics do well with frozen embryos (8)), and the FET gets around the endometrium issue just as well as the donor cycle does.
Avoid IVF and surrogacy in Ukraine. Ukrainian centers pay shills to post here under numerous sock accounts pretending to be patients in Ukraine. Centers using such deceptive advertising cannot be trusted and should be avoided.

wishfull27
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Post by wishfull27 » Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:11 pm

Hi not sure if there is much activity on this thread as had to search for it!!

Just returned from RE after 2nd BFN and we will now be moving forward with DE .. just wondered if anyone that has gone down this route can recommend any good books for support ??

Carolyn xx
IVF 4 BFP
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kellym
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Post by kellym » Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:07 pm

Best of luck Carolyn. I don't know of any books although I think that if you read through this thread you'll find some recommended reading as well as some great advise and discussions.

Please keep us posted on your journey down the DE road. We tried it in January and were very lucky after our first try (although we had 9 unlucky tries with my eggs prior to that)! I hope the same holds true for you!

Are you going to go overseas for DE or can you do it locally?

Take care,
Kelly
7 IVF cycles - 2 chemicals, 5 BFN
1 FET cycle - BFN
9th IVF cycle - BFP!! Twins born Sept 18/08
Trying again May 2010!!!

wishfull27
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Post by wishfull27 » Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:44 pm

Hi Kelly - congratulations on your BFP! .. I think we cycled together last september ??

I think we will stay in UK - but will depend on waiting times .. if going to be a long wait may go abroad .. just think process is traumatic enough without hassle of having to go to another country too :?

I seem to remeber you went overseas ?

Good luck with last trimester bet you keep having to pinch yourself after all those BFN's .. am so pleased for you

carolyn xx
IVF 4 BFP
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summerbaby
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Post by summerbaby » Tue Jul 15, 2008 7:50 am

hi carolyn,
we too are beginning our journey with DE. We've had 3 negative tries with IVF and our RE suggested DE, saying our chances would greatly improve. Our clinic also doesn't have a DE program so he has recommended another. We actually have no choice and have to travel to another country due to the laws where we live and where we underwent our tmt. We have our 1st appt with the new clinic in September. The waiting time for us until we can actually start tmt will be about 6 months.
Wishing you lots of luck with your research and on your path to becoming a little family.
Take good care,
summer

wishfull27
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Post by wishfull27 » Tue Jul 15, 2008 8:06 am

Hi Summer

Where are you going for treatment then?

I think most places wait is about 6 months .. just want to get the ball rolling on the next step now !

September is not that far away!

Keep us updated

Carolyn xx
IVF 4 BFP
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summerbaby
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Post by summerbaby » Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:15 pm

Hi Carolyn,
We'll be going for tmt in Prague. The clinic was recommended by our RE. We are going away on holiday and our 1st appt is the week we return - so you are right, it doesn't seem like that long to wait...the 6 months following will be the big challenge...but for various reasons, I've had to wait that long between treatments in the past, so I think it'll be okay -- Happy to have found this forum.
Let me know where you decide to go. Perhaps we'll have the chance to cycle together!
Take care,
Summer xx

kellym
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Post by kellym » Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:20 pm

Summerbaby,

I actually went to Czech for my treatment as well although I was in Zlin, not Prague. We spent most of our time in Prague which was so much fun. The great thing about DE is that there are minimal doctor's appointments so it really is more of a holiday with the DE transfer towards the end! All the best with it!!

Wishfull27,

Good luck with your next cycle!! I think we did cycle together last Sep! Hope they line you up with a donor quickly and that everything goes smoothly!!!

Take care and if you have any questions please do not hesitate to ask!

Kelly
7 IVF cycles - 2 chemicals, 5 BFN
1 FET cycle - BFN
9th IVF cycle - BFP!! Twins born Sept 18/08
Trying again May 2010!!!

summerbaby
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Post by summerbaby » Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:35 pm

hi kelly,
First of all, congrats on your pregnancy with DE! :D Must be such an amazing feeling after going through all that you have with IVF previously without success. The fact that you never gave up hope is wonderful and look how you've been rewarded. Congratulations...way to go!

Do you mind if I ask you a ton of questions now?.. :lol:
How did you choose your clinic?
What was your protocol like before your transfer?
How many embryos did you transfer and on what day?
How many eggs did your donor produce? Were any embryos frozen afterwards?
Did you fly or drive or take the train to your transfer and how long did you stay before returning home?

THANKS for answering some or all of my questions. It will be nice to have someone's first hand account before our upcoming appointment... and THANKS for the words of encouragement!

We are looking forward to a relaxing weekend in Prague before our 1st appt, so any tips on the city would also be greatly appreciated!

Take good care of yourself and your little wonder,
xx Summer

wishfull27
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Post by wishfull27 » Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:06 am

Hi Summer - can't answer any of DE questions but we spent a fantastic long weekend in Prague a coupe of years ago it is an amazing beautiful city with lots to see and do.. you will love it xx
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kellym
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Post by kellym » Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:19 pm

Hi Summerbaby,

Of course I can try to answer your questions...

We decided on our clinic because we had read a lot of reviews about the clinic and had some first hand experience (albeit a few people removed) who had good things to say. There are a lot of forums out there that discuss the various overseas clinics and it is useful to do some internet searches to hear what different people have to say about it. Of course, it is impossible to know 100% whether the clinic is perfect until you get there but my experience in Zlin was a good one!

My protocol was quite simple. I took one shot of Lupron (I was given the date by the clinic) and then started on estrace before I left. I had to have a lining check just before I left for Zlin and then when I arrived a few days later I had another lining check. At that point they scheduled the ER from the donor and then the ET for me. So, we had about 7 days off between our first doctor's appointment in Zlin and the ET day.

We transferred 3 5-day embryos. They recommended that we transfer two because they were very good quality embryos but given that we had been through the process 8 times before they were okay with transferring 3. The donor produced 16 eggs of which 12 fertilized, we transferred 3 and there were none left to transfer. They told us that they are very picky about what they freeze because they don't want the couple of travel all that way for a frozen transfer only to find out that the embryos didn't survive the thaw. So, they will only transfer top quality embryos - and we used all of ours when we transferred 3.

We originally thought that we'd stay in Zlin the whole time, but when we got there we realized that there was nothing to do in Zlin so after our first doctor's appointment we left for Prague and stayed there until the morning of our transfer. We took the train back to Zlin for our early afternoon appointment and then returned via train to Prague later that evening. We rested one day after the transfer and then flew home the following day.

Let me know if you need any other information!!!
All the best! Let me know when they schedule your cycle!
Kelly
7 IVF cycles - 2 chemicals, 5 BFN
1 FET cycle - BFN
9th IVF cycle - BFP!! Twins born Sept 18/08
Trying again May 2010!!!

rhall00
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Post by rhall00 » Sun Jul 20, 2008 1:49 am

Hi ladies! It looks like we finally have some action going on in this thread which is great. Summer has been great so far. I still love my job, have about 1 more month of school and then I'll be done! And we've been spending time at the beach with our dog which has been fabulous!

We did decide to do another round of FET in June. Talked to my RE and he thought assisted hatching would be good to try this round. We went in for the transfer on 7/9 and transferred 2 embryos. Our RE was really happy with the quality and he went out of his way to ensure he was the one that did the transer since he was so frustated with my case. Long story short, I got my beta today and it was 354!! I don't even have to come back in to see if the number doubles since it's so high. But now I'm terrified that it's twins! Yikes!! I have to call on Monday to schedule an ultrasound in 2.5 weeks. It still hasn't set in, but the next few weeks should be interesting. Now I just have to do whatever I can not to lose it!

Anyway, glad we have some new ladies on the board and that my old friends are still here. Hope everyone has a great summer!!

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