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Postby Mandy J » Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:21 pm

Poor Ellie has a tooth mark on her forhead...poor mummy has a wobbly tooth!!!!!

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Postby carolina1girl1 » Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:00 pm

Sorry to get everyone going about the shots subject. I didn't know..... Miley is up and on the go.. She is pulling herself up on things and standing very well. She will turn and take a step or two before falling. She is trying to stand by herself and will have her hands on the floor with her legs straight out almost doing a summersault. So cute. And FINALLY she has a tooth!!!!!!!!!! YEAH. She has been so cranky. Not wanting to sleep at all.
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Postby Mandy J » Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:56 pm

I think its great to have opposing views on the imms subject, I know I am somewhere in the middle of the debate and can pick up bits from both sides of the argument. Even IF there is a risk I personally think its worth it.... and I certainly respect decisions either for or against..but the arguments really do make you think about it more.

Ellie has terrible diaohrea (sp?) she has been 5 times today, but she is not at all grouchy and has not been sick, but think I will ring the health visitor if she is no better in the morning. Perhaps its due to teething (no problems with 1st 2) Maybe its all those biscuits that fell on the floor huh WC?

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Postby carolina1girl1 » Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:45 am

I remember with my son teething, certain teeth cause different reactions. With him getting his eye teeth he had bad diarrhea. About the shots, what makes it different to have the shots seperate then having all together? If you have a existing pre-disposition to autism wouldn't it still have the same effect? Just that something in the shot may trigger it but didn't cause it??? I am really confused, either way i believe in getting the shots so i guess it doesn't pertain to me. Any tips on getting them to bed?? Miley did so good for awhile, now she screams when we put her in the crib (for a long time to) tried to go in and comfort her every so often but she screams lounder when i do, tried letting her cry for 15 minutes and she had cried so hard she acted like she couldn't breathe. Broke my heart to do that. But was so tired the other night and we had been at it for 1 1/2 hours laid her in the bed next to me and she grabed my hand and fell asleep!!!! Just that quick. Then dh watched her the other day so my son and i could go to the movies and he laid her inthe bed with him and same thing, out!!! hummm. Never put her in the bed with us, so i know that it is not that she is use to it..?? She and my son are night and day.. Everything was so easy with him. She is giving me a run for all my money. lol. Any tips or tricks or advice i would love to hear. Any advice on sippy cups? I got miley the gerber ones with handles and she really likes it. Still waiting on some advice for finger foods!!
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Postby woodcliff » Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:34 am

Sounds like Miley might like to be rocked to sleep...my son has been waking up at night, due to teething, and I rock him back to sleep...it's the only thing that works.
Since Miley falls asleep the moment she's by your side in bed, she just needs reassurance. I say give a baby all the comfort they need.
Now, if they are 16 and want to be rocked to sleep???? :shock: ha.

It would be nice if the pharm cos produced the shots separately, but again, no scientific data it would work.

Cocoa, I hear you re: a virus 'triggering' an autism gene...but where are the data? I'd love to see a link to a scientific study!!!! All of the info out there is from moms who've 'witnessed' their children's reactions to the MMR...but no hard science. I think if I had an autistic child I'd also be looking to blame a vaccine, or pharm company, or what have you. But I can't help but think if a kid was going to have something wrong, it would happen regardless.

My nephew is an Aspberger's kid...he does have some incredibly 'goofy genes' (depression, bi-polar) on both parents' side...so it's no huge shock to both families...he is trying to be around, but incredibly intelligent so will probably be a computer nerd who'll get by in life, somehow. In the interim, we all hear about roller coasters, the weather channel, etc to no end...and now he talks to my babies as we have realized they are good listeners! (well, until they start complaining)
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Postby Cocoa » Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:01 pm

Hi Guys!!!

I just wanted to quickly answer WC about "proof"... there is in fact "proof" that vaccinations can and DO activate genes which then subjects a child to autism. A family WON a legal case because they PROVED this beyond a shadow of a doubt with regard to their daughter. SO - vaccinations CAN activate a gene - maybe that's what happend with your nephew and my son - BUT unfortunately we will never know WHO holds the genes... They are still working on identifying them but the above mentioned case has now given them at least ONE... Also, if you have ever watched regression just after a vaccination - as a parent THAT IS proof enough!

Oh - Carolina girl!!! I am SOOOO happy that Miley has been released from PT!!! What a true blessing and relief!

Gotta get back to work!

xxxCocoa
1 son b. 1993 -TTC (again) for 12 years
BFP!-8/22-9dp5dt - 485 8/24-1272 8/27-4636
B/G TWINS!!! Due 4/30/08 Born Friday April 4th, 2008 at 36w 2d Baby girl A 6 lbs 7 oz Baby boy B 6 lbs 3 oz
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Postby robinsonpr » Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:32 pm

All this vaccination talk has got me really worried now. I was just going to take all the usual vacs they offer here in the UK but this has got me reading all sorts of stuff about the poss link between mmr and autism. just don't know now :(

Do we even have the option for seperated vaccines here in the UK?

Hayley xx
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30/08 - BFP!! hcg 543
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Postby Mandy J » Thu Jan 22, 2009 5:27 pm

Hayley,

I think...but not totally sure....that you can opt for separate vaccinations, but I think they are not available on NHS and would have to pay for them...BUT I could be totally wrong so the best thing would be to have a chat with your health visitor

Mandy
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p.s one thing that DOES confuse me, is why they changed from 3 separate vaccines to the MMR anyway, the 3 separate did do the job anyway...I guess it probably all came down to cost effectiveness!!!!
Me 37-DH 53
1st IVF/ICSI 04/06 BFN
1st FET 05/06 BFN
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Postby Cocoa » Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:23 pm

Hi Girls!

I was told that here in the US you may be able to get your pediatrician to provide a prescription to the pharmacy for the individual vaccines. My pediatrician told me that the company was going back to the MMR after a few years of the vaccine being separated. The MMR is commonly given at 12 to 15 months but I will be waiting if I cannot get it separate. I cannot answer the reason as to why it went BACK to a three-in-one but I think it stinks and that the government has WAYYYY too much say into our lives. Its not that I don't "believe" that vaccines work - its that I think we bombard our children with WAYYYY too many substances during the time when their immune systems are maturing. We don't know what's in ANY of these vaccines or what they REALLY do to individuals. I know that ONLY two vaccines have proven their effectiveness in eradicating disease and those two - THE ONLY TWO - are small pox and polio - THAT'S IT!!! So why do BABIES need 36 shots before they are 2?

Anyway, my point is ladies that I DO agree with WC about their being a familial link with autism - if you have no disorders in the immediate family then I am sure your babies will be fine. I DO have autism to be concerned about based on my son and BOTH sides of the family... The best you can do is just to put it off for a time and/or try to get them separated...

love ya!
xxxCocoa
1 son b. 1993 -TTC (again) for 12 years
BFP!-8/22-9dp5dt - 485 8/24-1272 8/27-4636
B/G TWINS!!! Due 4/30/08 Born Friday April 4th, 2008 at 36w 2d Baby girl A 6 lbs 7 oz Baby boy B 6 lbs 3 oz
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Postby carolina1girl1 » Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:23 pm

Duh I am still missing something here. I still don't understand why it is safe to give the 3 shots seperate but together they can cause autism? Maybe I am over reading here. Miley also got released from the neurologist today. SO we are good to go! No more test or specialist!!
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Postby woodcliff » Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:35 am

You can opt for the vaccines to be delivered separately, BUT the pharm companies do not have the supply so that parents can do this...which is part of the problem..

ie: My doc said they only had one vile of, oh damn, one of the vaccines of the MMR combo.. BUT because pharm cos are slow on the delivery of separate vaccines, if a parent gets, say, a Rubella shot, but then cannot get the Measles and Mumps separate, you might end up getting the MMR anyhow to make sure you're covered (ie: the kid'll get a double dose of SOMETHING because too much time'll pass and you'll want ot get the shot)

NOt a good explanation, sorry.

What I don't get is what Carolina said: Why is it safer separated?
Also, Why the double dose/booster shot? (ie: now there are two MMR shots wherease in the pase there was only one MMR shot given). And do you HAVE to take the second dose?

Too many questions...not enough scientific answers.

But Cocoa, there have been Measles outbreaks in the past 2 years...in CA, religious and immigrant communties. Measles is apparently very dangerous to small children...OH and in NYC in the past 2 years. From foreigners, no less...

All too confusing...but I do plan to get the MMR shots for my babies..
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Postby Cocoa » Fri Jan 23, 2009 2:00 pm

Carolina girl - getting them separately just allows for there to be TIME between the shots and thereby not putting as much of a strain on the developing immune systems of a baby. The OTHER reason - MY reason - is that one of the three comes in the form of a LIVE virus and I do NOT want to mix a LIVE virus at the same time as introducing the other substances wherein the baby's body has to make antibodies as a reaction. A live virus gives them the illness - albiet in most babies very mildly. Anyway, WC has a good point about getting one separate and then not being able to get the others separate. I have to look into all this as my pediatrician has recommended.

WC - I had the chickenpox and the measles as a child. My sister had these two AND the mumps AND pertussus (whooping cough). We are alive and well. Its not that I would WANT my children to get these diseases but none of them are life threatening and the collateral damage were they are life threatening (the tiny percentage where it is life threatening to an individual) is not any different than vaccinating where some children react with seizures etc. So whether you choose to vaccinate or not doesn't change society's risk. In fact, there was a recent outbreak of whooping cough in NJ and children who WERE vaccinated WERE getting it. Like I said - the ONLY TWO diseases to be eradicated by vaccinations are smallpox and polio - two dangerous diseases and autism no autism my children WOULD be receiving those vaccines (when the new smallpox vaccine comes out I will weigh the odds only because I would want to know it was being manufactured safely first). I was vaccinated for smallpox in 1st grade which was 1967.

I will never be convinced that babies need 36 shots before the age of 2. This IS causing life changing events such as autism, seizures, the disease against which they were vaccinated... I therefore believe it should ALWAYS be a parent's choice OR vaccinate lightly as babies and get the rest AFTER age 2.

Just MHO.

xxxCocoa
1 son b. 1993 -TTC (again) for 12 years
BFP!-8/22-9dp5dt - 485 8/24-1272 8/27-4636
B/G TWINS!!! Due 4/30/08 Born Friday April 4th, 2008 at 36w 2d Baby girl A 6 lbs 7 oz Baby boy B 6 lbs 3 oz
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Postby woodcliff » Sat Jan 24, 2009 1:01 am

Cocoa, there are some women here in DC who have called all of the pharmacies and there are no separate doses available until...I don't know, pick a month long into the future.

I think you can ask your pediatrician to reserve you the individual shots. BUT my ped said his office can't even get a supply cuz the pharm cos are not producing them fast enough...

good luck as April rolls around!
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Postby robinsonpr » Tue Jan 27, 2009 6:47 am

hi everyone!

Have had a horrible week here. It all started last Saturday when my sister turned up to visit. She had lost her voice, having had a sore throat, cold etc. I was immediately concerned about her bringing germs into the house but she said she was fine now.

So the very next day both me and DH woke up with a bit of a sore throat. And then both babies got runny noses. And we all got worse as the week went on.

Jack has been ok in himself, but Charlie was just not himself....crying loads, lethargic, and kept banging himself on the head with his hand. I gave them calpol (paracetamol) as Charlie's temperature also went up a bit - normally about 36, went up to 38.5. He showed no real improvement after a couple of days so we all went to the docs.

Charlie has an ear infection in BOTH ears. They gave him antibiotics. Jack has one ear slightly red inside but no ab's for him. and DH has tonilitis.

SO....I'm really mad at my sister for coming over having just been ill. I'm also mad at myself for not turning her away at the doorstep, I feel it's my fault I let these germs in. She lives a 45min drive away and would have had a wasted journey but at least we would not all be ill.

Charlie has had one day on the ab's now so hopefully he'll start getting better soon.

how do you girls feel about exposing your little ones to germs? Do you actively try and keep them away from people with colds etc??

Hayley xx
Me 27 DH 36
Ectopic 09/06
08/07 - 1st IVF with Blasto
30/08 - BFP!! hcg 543
19/09 - 1st US...TWINS!!!

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Postby woodcliff » Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:11 am

Oh Hayley! I feel for you and your little ones...I hear you, I'd be ticked at anyone, sister or friend, who showed up sick! She must not have children ;)

Well, knock wood. My babies were only sick once, and that was at 6 weeks when my boy got bronchitis from a freakin' nanny! Hated her for that...

My guess is that they'll get exposed as they get into playgroups, etc. For now they aren't really exposed to germs except when we are out and about shopping, walking, etc...not the same as when a little baby is breathing on them or slobbering all over their toys!

Hope you and yours are well soon...
8/17: BETA 475
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37 weeks...
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