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Tracey

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Tracey

Postby Dagny » Tue May 18, 2004 1:58 pm

Hi Tracey

Thankyou so much for your message on the other side. I thought I would reply here as it's a bit depressing. I really am feeling so low. I thought I was coming out the other end but I seem to be getting into a different place that is dark and depressing. These sunny days are supposed to make you feel up lifted and happy but it's actually having the opposite effect on me. As hard as I try to see positives I just see brick walls and barriers. I know I should focus on the treatment now not what will happen if it doesn't work but my life is hanging in the balance on what the results will be. I also realise that I have been through quite possibly the worst thing anyone could go through - the death of a child and I have survived it - so far................... but, there will come a point when my heart will just not take anymore breaking and all the pain I am feeling inside.

I ache Tracey, my body is physically aching and my mind is playing tricks on me and I am losing it big time. I did something really stupid which I think is part of my depression now. I feel really stupid as I knew what the outcome would be but did it anyway. I was waiting for my AF to arrive and started feeling sick, headachey and getting similar pains in my tummy like when I was first PG with Katelyn. Even though I know damn well that without fallopian tubes that I will NEVER fall naturally but like I said I am losing my mind. I actually thought and believed that I could be pregnant. I was actually being sick!! So what did I do? A test! How rediculous is that? When the obvious result showed up I cried and cried until my throat closed up. I felt so bloody stupid and so sad at the same time. I got so angry that I will never have that surprise pregnancy, angry that it always has to be drug related with the world and his wife knowing everything and being prodded and poked with doctors looking up my bits and bobs all the time. I hate it, I hate it so f***ing much. I am so sorry for moaning. I really am on the edge of despair.

I read all you advice and it all makes sense and I feel that I can do this, I can get through it and then just as quickly I fall into the darkness again. I wish I would stop crying but more than that I wish for my Katelyn back. I wany my baby so much, I miss her and crave for her. It's just not fair. I hate my life at the moment and I don't know what to do. Knowing I have to spend the rest of my life without my precious little girl is killing me.

Forgive me Tracey as you have been so good to me and it must seem like all you have said to me means nothing but it's not like that, I promise.

Love Dagny and my guardian angel Katelyn x
Me 38 DH 40
1st 2nd & 4th IVF/ICSI -ve
3rd +ve DD Katelyn born @ 24wks & sadly died
5th +ve m/c 9wks
6th +ve Twins Sadly DD Leah stillborn @20wks and DS Kieran born @22wks but sadly died too
7th +ve - DD Chloë Mae born @38wks our precious miracle
Dagny
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Location: Redhill, Surrey

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Postby anjela » Tue May 18, 2004 3:08 pm

Dagny
hope you don't mind me butting in here - just needed to say hello. I know your world seems so dark at the moment, and this sunshine outside doesn't help at all. It seems almost an insult that Mother Nature has the cheek to provide such good weather when she has been so mean to you and I, (and Tracey, although she's currently trying to make it up to her and so she should!)

I don't think you are losing your mind, I think you are grieving so strongly that your thoughts and spirit are in a different place entirely. You're in a parallel universe. There can be little rationality in our worlds at the moment. Quite often as I sit at home I think I can hear a baby crying - and thats about as likely as you having a tubeless conception! And as for grieving that you will never get pregnant naturally - I say f**k it, who cares how you get pregnant as long as you do... and by God you will! The truth of the matter though is that ICSI only works on roughly 1 in 3 goes - therefore it might not be the first time you do it again, it might be the time after that. And if it doesn't work the first time you'll just think, odds didn't work out that time, lets go again. Patience is bl**dy hard in this situation, but the final outcome will make it all worthwhile.

You and I would both do anything to get our babies back where they belong but the cruel and insane truth of the matter is that they've gone. They'll always be with us, but they can't be here. You however, are here on the planet, as is your husband and your hope for the future. Don't force positive thoughts because as much as you try to put a brave face on things the worse you feel inside. Just try to be calm, and know that you will feel joy again in your life - although it doesn't seem like it now.

I haven't been on this site for a few days either because to be honest although I've found it really helpful being in touch with you and Tracey, I find it quite frightening reading other people's accounts of treatment, their positives, negatives, worries etc. I think I am more able to keep a sense of perspective and reduce my stress by trying to focus on other things. We went back to see our consultant yesterday (not the fertility man the other one) who said that they think now our baby died because of a clotting problem with me (but its still all a bit speculative) not the cord theory. This means low dose aspirin for me and possibly heparin when I get pregnant again if this clotting problem shows its ugly face. I'd be happy to strap myself to a hospital bed for as long as it takes with needles in my eyes if thats what would do it.

Enough rambling. Keep in touch, I'm thinking of you
Anjela
x
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Postby Tracey S » Tue May 18, 2004 3:20 pm

Dagny

What am I to do with you. I don't think for a moment that everything I say goes in one ear and out the other............ not at all and I don;t think it means nothing toyou either or you would know!!!! :twisted:

You have to accept that there are days like this - who on earth wrote any bloody rule books to say don't feel upset and bitter and especially not on a sunny day hey? No one or if they did they are flaming prats :roll:

You don't have Katelyn with you to hold in the physical sense but you do know that she is always with you. I felt the same with Oliver but no matter what anyone said I wanted him here and still do. Being pg does not change that it just changes the way I deal with it and it will be the same with you. It is not fair and I considered on my 4th time being pg with Oliver was more than most people had to go through to get pg and I deserved it and to have it taken away................ :evil: This is where you are too. WE don't deserve to be prodded and poked and stab ourselves and put our lives on hold and put everything we dream about in the hands of medical science and watch soppy 15 year olds trot off and have yet another abortion or mothers moan because they are up the duff again!!! Silly cows but this is what we have to put up with. In days gone by you and I would not have had an Oliver and a Katelyn at all would we? Now I know you are going to say I am right but none of this will make a jot of difference to how you feel will it? Accept it - you have lost you entire dream and at times you feel your life (with respect to David of course). You are petrified that you will never have another chance as this was your one and only chance and someone somewhere has judged it necessary to snatch that chance off you for whatever reason but a reason you can't comprehend or justify - EVER! You won't ever justify it DAgny - I can't and I can't justify mine with Oliver. You will always be scared about getting pg or not getting pg or it happening all over again. It is very rare for this to happen. You and I are very similar - we have tubal problems and this is why we have IVF - it is made for people like us and the chances are excellent whatever you might fear that you will be pg again. All we can do is try together to get you through this - you have David and family and friends like me who will try and get you through it.
You have so much to lose and I think this is what you are focusing on rather than what you have to gain. Forget about the prodding and poking - it is horrid and we should not have to go through it but we do and you will soon forget it if everything works. Spend time with DAvid whilst you are having tmt - there is not reason why you can't enjoy a full relationship with him - Ask the clinic but mine told me it's fine as no way I was going to get pg naturally and risk multiple pg as was stimming. It might help you through it more. And at the end of the day just accept you will have some bad days - really bad - you are human you know and these times help you through in an odd sort of a way.
I have emailed you with some advice on your protocol - sorry have to pip in don't I - don't know if you have read it yet.
Thinking of you and Oliver says you can definately follow in my footsteps!
Love
Tracey
xxx
ttc 9 years. 38 yrs old, dh 8 hrs younger!First IVF in Aug 2002 and had ectopic.2nd IVF neg.3rd FET and negative.4th FET and positive but sadly lost our little boy at 20 weeks.5th FET and Alice Isobel and Emily Charlotte born 5th Aug 2004!
Tracey S
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Postby Tracey S » Tue May 18, 2004 3:34 pm

Anjela

Sorry I was rambling on to DAgny (she has probably gone in to a comotose state by now!) and you must have been typing at the same time.
Did not mean to ingore you news! Clotting hey? I don't want to be a know it all but am going to stick my beak in anyway - did they do any clotting tests - I assume so and hope they have not just plucked this one out of the air! It's just that a friend of mine was told that her baby died due to negligence on the hospital part and that he died due to lack of blood sugars etc and then they changed their mind and were told clotting. The post mortem revealed the former problem and an inquest has been requested. I say this because sometimes it is easier for the clinic/consultant to say clotting as they would not know at the time blah blah blah. Low dose aspirin is fine as will not do any damage even if you don;t need it but heparin - please do have the blood tests if you haven't just to make sure.
Otherwise I totally understand why you have been avoiding the boards - to be honest I avoided them all together during my tmt and then just popped back on to tell them all the good news as did not want the pressure etc for a 5th time - do what you have to just to get by.
I wish you all the luck in the world and am quite certain you will be pg again one day - maybe this next tmt but certainly soon. TAke care and you are doing really well
Love
Tracey
xxx
ttc 9 years. 38 yrs old, dh 8 hrs younger!First IVF in Aug 2002 and had ectopic.2nd IVF neg.3rd FET and negative.4th FET and positive but sadly lost our little boy at 20 weeks.5th FET and Alice Isobel and Emily Charlotte born 5th Aug 2004!
Tracey S
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Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2003 7:48 am
Location: Lincs

Postby Dagny » Tue May 18, 2004 3:55 pm

My dear friends Tracey and Anjela

Thanks so much for your replies. I realise that what I am going through is only natural and there will be days like these. It's just so hard on these lovely days full of sunshine.

It does feel like it only happened yesterday and yet it was 11 and a half weeks ago. Where has that time gone????

Anjela, you say you think you hear a baby crying which must be hard and probably one of those mind things but I CAN hear a baby crying. The woman next door who we are joined onto had a baby just weeks before Katelyn was born and all I can hear is her crying and crying and crying. Sometimes I feel like charging round there and shouting at them to pick their precious baby up and comfort her instead of letting her cry for ages. I feel like screaming myself as it's like someone twisting my insides when I hear her cooing in her pram in the garden or crying for a feed. When my milk kicked in and my breasts were full and engorged they felt like they were on fire when I heard her crying. If my neighbour had gone through what I have and I had my baby I would be really sensitive to how much my baby was crying but she just doesn't comprehend my situation. All the Dad does (he is back now the two timing ar$e hole) is shout at the children - tosser!!

The world just keeps on turning and my world is getting darker and slower. It's crap and I hate it. I would never do anything silly if you get my meaning as I couldn't do that to David or my family but I have to admit the possibility does seem a better choice. At least I would be with my baby again. But I'm not going there, OK?

You both have said some incredibly wise words and I am so lucky to have your support and encouragement. I will be there for you too Anjela when you get the go ahead even though you may think I am going round the bend I am better at giving the advice than taking it. Tracey I am so happy that you have been given the chance of motherhood again with your girls and I know you want Oliver as much as I want Katelyn and Anjela wants Katie. You will be a fantastic Mummy. Look how many of the 1st Trimester girls want you as their Mum!!!! That thread is funny even in my despair the thread makes me smile. Were we as bad as them? I think yes we were if not worse.

I suppose when you look at the 1 in 3 odds our chances of success are higher especially as my only problem is road works. The sperm and the egg just need help getting from A to B!

Thankyou you two I do appreciate all you say to me. I will try to shake this depression off and get a grip. Phew!!!

Much love Dagny xkx

BTW Where is Sophie?? She has been incredibly quiet. I hope all is well with her.
Me 38 DH 40
1st 2nd & 4th IVF/ICSI -ve
3rd +ve DD Katelyn born @ 24wks & sadly died
5th +ve m/c 9wks
6th +ve Twins Sadly DD Leah stillborn @20wks and DS Kieran born @22wks but sadly died too
7th +ve - DD Chloë Mae born @38wks our precious miracle
Dagny
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Posts: 1661
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2003 3:43 pm
Location: Redhill, Surrey

Postby Tracey S » Tue May 18, 2004 4:29 pm

DAgny

That's the spirit - can't believe tosser is back - you haven't mentioned him for a while that I thought he might have shrivelled up somewhere - no such luck!
I was about to write to Becky in the US and update her on the news etc and bingo she writes to you - now nice to see her back

As for you then we will get you there and Anjela - the ladies who have lost babies like us go on to have pg's and babies again it appears! Phew!
The worry will never stop just we have to deal with it differently. I don't worry about you doing anything daft except reading too much on the H&A website and yes we were as bad as the 1st trimester gang I imagine.
AS for Sophie sure she is fine just hot and trying not to go round the twist with us lot
Massive hug
Love
Tracey
xxx
ttc 9 years. 38 yrs old, dh 8 hrs younger!First IVF in Aug 2002 and had ectopic.2nd IVF neg.3rd FET and negative.4th FET and positive but sadly lost our little boy at 20 weeks.5th FET and Alice Isobel and Emily Charlotte born 5th Aug 2004!
Tracey S
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Location: Lincs

Postby Dagny » Wed May 19, 2004 8:10 am

Hi Tracey

It was a lovely surprise to see a post from Becky. I know you were in touch with her. We just have to find Val and get her back on line. Wibbs is in contact with Val isn't she?

Still feeling a bit sad. I expect I will be feeling like this from time to time especially as my treatment start date will br drawing nearer. I really wish I had some frosties as doing another fresh cycle is such a drag.

My friend has just gone into hospital to be induced this morning. Mixed feelings on my front. Hoping it is a girl for their sakes but hoping for a boy for my sakes. Our babies would have been friends if things were different so it's going to be a difficult day today.

As for the H&A website do you feel since reading Sally's diaries it isn't so exciting (well H&A is hardly exciting :roll: is it? ) but now we know the plots for the next 8 - 9 months it's kinda ruined it. I will still watch it though. Big Brother starts next weekend - yeah!!!! I love it, but never get anything done and never go to bed. I was looking forward to when Katelyn came that if she was up in the night I could just sit with her and watch the housemates for company. That aint gonna happen anymore. Maybe Big Brother 6 next year!!!! Gosh I am such a telly addict :oops:

What are your plans today? How are the girls behaving themselves? You must be 28 weeks now or soon aren't you?

Love Dagny xkx
Me 38 DH 40
1st 2nd & 4th IVF/ICSI -ve
3rd +ve DD Katelyn born @ 24wks & sadly died
5th +ve m/c 9wks
6th +ve Twins Sadly DD Leah stillborn @20wks and DS Kieran born @22wks but sadly died too
7th +ve - DD Chloë Mae born @38wks our precious miracle
Dagny
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Posts: 1661
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2003 3:43 pm
Location: Redhill, Surrey

Postby Tracey S » Wed May 19, 2004 9:24 am

DAgny

Great to hear from Becky yes! Wibbs is in touch with Val so maybe she can get back on with Dr Marcus's help!

I try and stay away from the H&A website or diaries as don;t want to ruin too much. Let's hope one day you won't have time to watch it so have to read the diary!
I know it's a hard day for you today and my thoughts are with you!
Today I am going to have a cofee with a friend up the road - just got back from walking Gabbie and then not sure - tomorrow shopping with Mum in Derby to get some moses baskets and stuff :lol:
28 weeks on Friday and can't believe it - still wait for something to go wrong sometimes - daft I know!
Love
Tracey
xxx
ttc 9 years. 38 yrs old, dh 8 hrs younger!First IVF in Aug 2002 and had ectopic.2nd IVF neg.3rd FET and negative.4th FET and positive but sadly lost our little boy at 20 weeks.5th FET and Alice Isobel and Emily Charlotte born 5th Aug 2004!
Tracey S
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Posts: 2175
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2003 7:48 am
Location: Lincs

Postby Dagny » Fri May 21, 2004 12:37 pm

Hi Tracey

I am in such a state.

Firstly my best friend had her baby the night before last. My worry was whether she was having a boy or a girl and she had another boy. Thomas Patrick and weighed in at a wopping 11lb 1oz!!! :D And a nutural birth no less. Head measured 38cm Owwwwwch!!!!!!! Only 2 stitches though :?

Both Mum and baby doing fine and they came home this luch time. I went to see them in hospital yesterday and he really is a big chap. Very like his brother in looks.

Well that was the good news. Now for the sad news :(

About an hour ago I got a phonecall from my other PG friend with IVF twins. Her c-section booked in for next week but went in for a check up. She was having one of each and they couldn't find the girls heartbeat. She has died! I am in total shock, I don't know where to turn. For the both of us to lose our little girls within a few months of each other is just unbelievable. We had our treatment at the same hospital and that's how we met. There will obviously be a post mortem and she is having her c-section as I type. How will she feel when they give her her little boy and then to see her little girl? I feel so bad about saying she just didn't understand how I feel about Katelyn and now she is going through exactly that. I feel so sick. It has brought all my feelings to the surface again to the day I gave birth to Katelyn and I know what she has to come in the next months. It's just too cruel.

I can't stop crying. I am sorry Tracey as now I have probably made you worry now. Oh God what is this world like? Why do these things have to happen to anyone?

Love Dagny xkx :cry:
Me 38 DH 40
1st 2nd & 4th IVF/ICSI -ve
3rd +ve DD Katelyn born @ 24wks & sadly died
5th +ve m/c 9wks
6th +ve Twins Sadly DD Leah stillborn @20wks and DS Kieran born @22wks but sadly died too
7th +ve - DD Chloë Mae born @38wks our precious miracle
Dagny
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Posts: 1661
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2003 3:43 pm
Location: Redhill, Surrey

Postby Tracey S » Fri May 21, 2004 2:29 pm

OMG Dagny

I just don't know what to say - I have heard of this once on the board but I think she gave birth to both twins and one died straight away as had got distressed or something.

First things first - you have one friend who has had her little boy that is wonderful.
Now you must try and be strong for your friend who has lost her little girl - it is dreadful and reminds me of what happened in our village - 3 of us on the trot. She will be absolutely devestated and I can't comment as she has the other twin (let's hope all ok first) and this is a reminder and a blessing if that makes sense. To lose a baby as you know is dreadful at any stage - to give birth to a dead baby as we both know is shocking too!!!
This might sound awful Dagny (and I am desperately trying to not get in a flap here as been worrying all week that one of mine might die!) but please be supportive as you can but don't try and get bogged down in it all. I hope you don;t think I am being mean but you are my friend and I have watched you struggle to come to terms with Katelyn's death (just as I did with Oliver) and only just start coming out the other side bit by bit and now have the worry of your tmt coming up and now this............
Please don't let it break you but be there too - does that make sense and not sound awful.
I am around if you need me
Love
Tracey
xxx
ttc 9 years. 38 yrs old, dh 8 hrs younger!First IVF in Aug 2002 and had ectopic.2nd IVF neg.3rd FET and negative.4th FET and positive but sadly lost our little boy at 20 weeks.5th FET and Alice Isobel and Emily Charlotte born 5th Aug 2004!
Tracey S
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Posts: 2175
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2003 7:48 am
Location: Lincs

Postby anjela » Fri May 21, 2004 3:08 pm

Dagny
I was so shocked to read about your friend's little girl. Nobody knows better than us what a huge devastation this will be. As someone who has lost their only child a part of me does think 'at least she still has her little boy' but this is pathetically uncomforting and the loss of any life at this stage is beyond belief. Her baby boy will keep her occupied but that hole in her life will always be there as we know.

I have a feeling that your friendship with her will become stronger than ever as you've shared so many enormous life experiences. But, as Tracey says - you've got to be really selfish here. It might help you to help her, but on the other hand you might want to get some distance from this because its all too soon and too raw. You have to decide what is best here for you and your future.

Thinking of you
anjela
xx
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Postby Tracey S » Fri May 21, 2004 3:38 pm

Anjela

Just rang Dagny as felt I had been a bit harsh - she is doing alright and we had a chat about it. It is dreadful but she will still go away for the weekend and see what support she can give next week.
HAve a good weekend yourself and please try and not dwell too much on you being at fault - much easier said than done
Love
Tracey
xxx
ttc 9 years. 38 yrs old, dh 8 hrs younger!First IVF in Aug 2002 and had ectopic.2nd IVF neg.3rd FET and negative.4th FET and positive but sadly lost our little boy at 20 weeks.5th FET and Alice Isobel and Emily Charlotte born 5th Aug 2004!
Tracey S
Valued Contributor
 
Posts: 2175
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2003 7:48 am
Location: Lincs

Postby Dagny » Tue May 25, 2004 4:09 pm

Hello Tracey and Anjela

Thanks for your replies. I went away for the weekend to our flat in Chichester with some good friends and my mind was taken off my friend and her tragic loss for a little bit although it was always playing on my mind for a lot of the time. I felt sick and utterly distraught for her and her DP. To come this far only for this to happen at the final hurdle.

I have been in text touch with her and with the fertility nurses too as she is in the hospital where we had treatment together. She seems to be coping in her own way. She is VERY strong and some of her texts have been very up beat. I don't know how she does it??

Louis was 3lb 15oz and poor Roxi was 3lb 12oz. Does that seem small for 35 weeks?? Jo Radley's twins were a lot heavier and a week earlier than these twins. I don't know much about what good twins weights should be. I don't know why Roxi died yet and I am sure they don't either only that she died a few days before they realized. A post mortem will no doubt give an answer although it will never bring her back. Louis is in SCBU and is doing OK. He has to have breast milk and keep it all down before he can be moved out of intensive care.

I asked my fertility nurse if it would be OK to go and see my friend and she said it would be really kind of me but only if I could handle it. I know I can and I just want to be there for my friend. I will give her a buzz I think.

Anjela - How are you today? Has the news of Katie's PM results sunk in yet? I hope you are still not blaming yourself as much. I know you will always think you were in some way to blame as much as I do but I think those feelings can be damaging to your future treatments. I suppose we have to let go at some stage as hard as it is. I am constantly fighting the urge to blame myself and beating myself up isn't going to bring my baby back. We are all here for you Anjela and when you have off days and need support we will be there come rain or shine, OK?

Tracey - Thanks for ringing me on Friday. You are a very kind and caring person. I t was lovely chatting to you and it seemed strange talking about lots of people who we have never met but been a huge part of their lives. This forum has been a lifesaver and so have you. THANKYOU!!!!!

Much love Dagny xkx
Me 38 DH 40
1st 2nd & 4th IVF/ICSI -ve
3rd +ve DD Katelyn born @ 24wks & sadly died
5th +ve m/c 9wks
6th +ve Twins Sadly DD Leah stillborn @20wks and DS Kieran born @22wks but sadly died too
7th +ve - DD Chloë Mae born @38wks our precious miracle
Dagny
Valued Contributor
 
Posts: 1661
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2003 3:43 pm
Location: Redhill, Surrey

Postby Tracey S » Tue May 25, 2004 4:30 pm

Dagny

Glad you are ok and had a good weekend - thanks for the update - these weights do seem a little on the small side. I know Nik's were larger for their dates of 33 weeks but they were 3lb8 and 4lb9! And as you say Jo's were huge great things - the weight is not abnormally small either and did not contribute I would imagine to the outcome - let's hope Louis is ok.

If you can find the strength I think it would be wonderful for you to see her and offer support - it will be good for her and for you I think! Don't push it though if you can't. you are very welcome on the phone call of course and no thanks needed - I was just worried about you and you would have done the same I know! It was lovely to talk to you and have some laughs even under the most tragic of circumstances. I had a stern telling off from my midwife yesterday for mentioning this news - oops - told me not to dwell on it!

Anjela - hope all is well with you - around if you need me
Love
Tracey
xxx
ttc 9 years. 38 yrs old, dh 8 hrs younger!First IVF in Aug 2002 and had ectopic.2nd IVF neg.3rd FET and negative.4th FET and positive but sadly lost our little boy at 20 weeks.5th FET and Alice Isobel and Emily Charlotte born 5th Aug 2004!
Tracey S
Valued Contributor
 
Posts: 2175
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2003 7:48 am
Location: Lincs


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