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kruger versus WHO?? - Ghost or anyone else..

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kruger versus WHO?? - Ghost or anyone else..

Postby Pocos » Tue Aug 14, 2012 3:57 pm

Ladies, I am very confused. I recently switched clinics after my first IVF transfer was cancelled due to OHSS (RE didnt want to change protocol). This first clinic said we had a male factor (96% sperm abdnormal - kruger). The second clinic said my husband sperm is fine but they use WHO, not kruger. Which one is better?

Also, I had a BFN. They did a split cycle (half IFV half ICSI) and none of the eggs from the IVF side were fertilized!! Could this be due to the bad morphology noted on the kruger test? Next cycle the doctor wants to do ICSI in all the eggs.

I am very confused. I think the first clinic did the right diagnosis, but their protocol didnt work for me. Second clinic diagnosed us as "unexplained infertility"... Should I seek a third opinion??

Thanks.
Me: 31-PCOS, endometriosis, adhesions, abnormal blood flow to the uterus, rare cystic fibrosis mutation)
DH: 43-1% normal sperm
TTC since Feb 2010
3 failed IUIs
3 failed IFVs
April 2013: Laparoscopy to remove endo & adhesions
Sept 2013: Natural BFP!
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Re: kruger versus WHO?? - Ghost or anyone else..

Postby kerpupples » Wed Aug 15, 2012 12:55 am

Didn't you get to retrieval at your first clinic?

If either is a clinic with strong numbers I think it's a little hasty to jump ship after one failed cycle. Each woman responds differently to different protocols.
Amy
Me: 39 DH: 41 Male Factor
3yo DD from FET
IVF PGD clinical trial, FET Jan 2012 Beta 1/14 447, Beta 1/16 1161 U/S 1/30 it's twins!
Graham and Audrey born 9/5/12. 37w4d, no NICU time!
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Re: kruger versus WHO?? - Ghost or anyone else..

Postby Pocos » Wed Aug 15, 2012 6:18 pm

I did have a retrieval at my first clinic but out of 40 follicles, only 3 eggs were mature, and I had OHSS and couldnt do the transfer. I spoke to the doctor about changing the protocol, but all he wanted to do was trigger with Lupron. I was afraid I was going to have only 3 mature eggs again so I changed clinics. The second IVF went much better: 19 follicles, 14 mature eggs. WE did a split cycle (7 eggs IVF and 7 eggs ICSI) but only 6 eggs fertilized (with ICSI).

I am confused about the kruger and the WHO sperm tests... I think the first clinic made the right diagnosis (male infertility) but their protocol wasnt good. The second clinic uses WHO so according to them my husband sperm is normal, but since eggs only fertilize with ICSI, I guess we really have a male problem. I am 29 years old, all my tests were normal.
Me: 31-PCOS, endometriosis, adhesions, abnormal blood flow to the uterus, rare cystic fibrosis mutation)
DH: 43-1% normal sperm
TTC since Feb 2010
3 failed IUIs
3 failed IFVs
April 2013: Laparoscopy to remove endo & adhesions
Sept 2013: Natural BFP!
Pocos
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Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2012 6:47 pm
Location: Connecticut

Re: kruger versus WHO?? - Ghost or anyone else..

Postby kerpupples » Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:30 pm

There is nothing wrong with ICSI. We used it on all of our cycles. Based on your results I think I would stay with the current clinic but use ICSI on all eggs. Regardless of the sperm test mechanism, it seems clear that your Dh's sperm could use a little help.
Amy
Me: 39 DH: 41 Male Factor
3yo DD from FET
IVF PGD clinical trial, FET Jan 2012 Beta 1/14 447, Beta 1/16 1161 U/S 1/30 it's twins!
Graham and Audrey born 9/5/12. 37w4d, no NICU time!
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Re: kruger versus WHO?? - Ghost or anyone else..

Postby kynlee » Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:45 pm

POCOS- I also used Icsi, there is nothing wrong with that and alot of clinics use that now... I would definite use it on all your eggs for your next cycle... Has your DH tried any vitamins to help with the sperm count? Maybe you can pos to see what the other girls husbands tried I know I have read of a few of them going on vitamins and it did help...
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Re: kruger versus WHO?? - Ghost or anyone else..

Postby kiwi11 » Thu Aug 16, 2012 3:29 am

Hi pocos- we have a male factor situation as well and matter what test you do youvshould get a report where it exactly states how many are there, moving, shape,speed , morphology etc oor else so you know what to do. Like for as it was the ifv with Icsi -no other option. Since the icsi worked for you I also think you should use it on all eggs, its sad that you go through the process and loose 7 nice eggs just because they don't fertilize. It is just such a magical process

And for the vitamins for DH - for us he had the best result when he had a burger and a beer :-)
Me 34 DH 36
IVF1 BFP DS born 6/2010
IVF2 BFP
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Re: kruger versus WHO?? - Ghost or anyone else..

Postby Pocos » Thu Aug 16, 2012 3:37 pm

Kerpupples - Thanks for your input - My husband has normal counts and motility, the only issue is morphology with the kruger test. He did the DNA fragmentation test and it came back "fair fertilization rate".

Kynlee - My husband is taking a ton of vitamins (DHEA, pyricogenol, multivitamin, l-carnitie etc). I did help with the count (went from $20 million to $187 million but I am still not pregnant!!) It seems the vitamins dont help with morphology :cry: Well, my doctor explained that not all eggs are designed to become a baby, so he is concerned that we waisted the other 7 eggs with regular IVF but maybe they were the ones that were designed to be a baby, so hopefully doing ICSI in all eggs will give us a better outcome.

Kiwi11 - LOL my husband has stopped with the beer, burger, all we are eating is healthy stuff, maybe we should be more flexible with the food we eat then! I cant wait to start my next cycle and do ICSI in all my eggs. I hope we can do a 5 day transfer too (if we have 8 or more embies they will do). Thanks for your help!
Me: 31-PCOS, endometriosis, adhesions, abnormal blood flow to the uterus, rare cystic fibrosis mutation)
DH: 43-1% normal sperm
TTC since Feb 2010
3 failed IUIs
3 failed IFVs
April 2013: Laparoscopy to remove endo & adhesions
Sept 2013: Natural BFP!
Pocos
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Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2012 6:47 pm
Location: Connecticut


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