FET or Fresh cycle after 1st failed IVF? Ghost/Anyone?

[aimee613]

We just went through our first failed IVF cycle which ended in a chemical pregnancy. I am 36 years old and have no known problems, but DH has MFI, specifically, low motiility at 5%. We did a three day transfer of three grade B embryos all either 7 or eight cells. My RE brought the rest of our embryos (there we ten others) to day 5 and we ended up with two grade 5AA blasts on ice. We have our consult after our failed cycle is with our RE next week and I already know that he is going to reccomend a medicated FET. I am concerned as the thaw survival rate at my clinic is 70% so there is a chance that they will not survive the thaw. Should I push for a Fresh IVF cycle on the next go or try to use what we have? I was upset on the first cycle that he did a three day instead of a five day transfer as we had 13 embryos on day three. As it turned out, the two that he froze on day five were better graded than the three we transfered on day three. He said he was trying to be conservative because he was uncertain if anything would make it to day five since this was my first IVF cycle and he was not sure how my embryos would do. I feel like if we do a five day transfer on thee next cycle with a fresh cycle as opposed to the FET we will increase our odds. I want to be able to go into the meeting with the RE with good information so I can understand where he is coming from when he makes his suggestion and either agree with it or suggest something else. Please share your opinons and thoughts on this as I want to make sure the right decsision is made.

[gi]

Hi aimee613,

Sorry to hear about your chemical pregnancy i understand how difficult it is but I would def. recommend trying the frozen 1st. We are now (fingers crossed ) 8 wks pregnant from our fet cycle, we had 2 frozen at day 3 and were also told they were better quality than the original 2 transferred on the fresh (we got pg from that also but m/c), our rates for thaw were also 70% and both survived the thaw. I will admit it was a nerve racking time but the FET is much easier to do. Your 2 sound like good quality embroys so have some faith in them they wouldnt have frozen them if they didnt think they good. I wish you and dh the very best of luck and hope to see a BFP from you very shortly!!!

gi xxxxx

[TammyS]

I agree. Some people can only get pregnant with a FET, you may be one of them. We are doing a FET, because we want to give every embryo that we already have, a chance at life. If they made it to 5 days (your doc is right, they often dont make it to 5 days) and they are of good quality, that is absolutely terrific. It means they are very good embryos. Also, giving your body a break from all the meds that a fresh cycle requires vs a FET, may be better for you getting pregnant, too. Cheaper, too. Good Luck in your decision.

[Ghost]

We just went through our first failed IVF cycle which ended in a chemical pregnancy. I am 36 years old and have no known problems, but DH has MFI, specifically, low motiility at 5%. We did a three day transfer of three grade B embryos all either 7 or eight cells. My RE brought the rest of our embryos (there we ten others) to day 5 and we ended up with two grade 5AA blasts on ice. We have our consult after our failed cycle is with our RE next week and I already know that he is going to reccomend a medicated FET. I am concerned as the thaw survival rate at my clinic is 70% so there is a chance that they will not survive the thaw. Should I push for a Fresh IVF cycle on the next go or try to use what we have? I was upset on the first cycle that he did a three day instead of a five day transfer as we had 13 embryos on day three. As it turned out, the two that he froze on day five were better graded than the three we transfered on day three. He said he was trying to be conservative because he was uncertain if anything would make it to day five since this was my first IVF cycle and he was not sure how my embryos would do. I feel like if we do a five day transfer on thee next cycle with a fresh cycle as opposed to the FET we will increase our odds. I want to be able to go into the meeting with the RE with good information so I can understand where he is coming from when he makes his suggestion and either agree with it or suggest something else. Please share your opinons and thoughts on this as I want to make sure the right decsision is made.

I almost always say use the frozen embryos first. There are a few good reasons for this. First, you are being charged for keeping them frozen, and there is no point in paying for that if you won't use them. Second, most of the cost and risk in IVF are related to ovarian stimulation, and frozen embryo cycles avoid that. There's no need to spend all that money and endure all that risk when you could just use the frozens and see if they work. Third, there's good published evidence that the endometrium is sometimes more receptive in a cycle that uses frozen embryos because there's no ovarian stimulation.

[lisa10]

Try the frozen. The process is so much less stressful on you body, cheaper and you have them anyway.

[jenice]

aimee613, we also have a similar problem.We have failed our first cycle but with 2 blastocysts that were transferred.We still have to talk more with the RE but I'm pretty sure they won't know what went wrong.We have 2 PN embryos left for an FET.I've also considered going to fresh vs FET.But in the end they are embryos so I guess I have a chance.I'm hoping that the fresh was to hard on my body and maybe that is why implantation didn't occur.I have a child already that was only with a little help of clomid, so I thought this was definitely going to happen with IVF.I had good embryos, good transfer but I was borderline for hyperstimulating so maybe that was my problem. I just don't want to go into a cycle already feeling like I don't have a shot even if it an easier cycle than fresh.I don't think I could stand another dissapointment.I have already had 2 cancelled cycles and one failed,m so this will be #4 for me.I'm not taking any breaks, I want to be pregnant as soon as I can.I haven't had much luck with IVF just had a post allergic reaction to the progesterone after cycle failed broke out in hives 5 days later.My tushy was covered now am on steroids.So, with the way my body has been lately I could ironically see me getting prego with 2 PN embryos !!!!

[statsgoddess]

We have two frosties and decided to do a fresh cycle instead of a frozen. Our reasons behind this was that even if the frozen cycle worked, we would do a fresh again to try for a sibling or two. We figured it would be better to keep working with the younger eggs at this point and the odds of a fresh cycle working are much better at our clinic. Also, I had about $1250 worth of leftover stim meds in the fridge from the first try, so those did not go to waste.

Plus, as it turned out, they changed my protocol for stims this time and I didn't make as many eggs. They talked with us about cancelling the cycle or just transferring the frozen this time, but we decided to continue on and would transfer the frozen if we didn't have any good fresh embryos. It was nice to have a backup plan and not have the cycle be completely wasted. We ended up transferring 3 fresh embryos on day 3 and still have the two frosties for another try.

[aimee613]

Thanks to all who responded.I am truly grateful for your opinions and your stories.

Ghost-as always your insights are helpful and appreciated.In your experience is the FET success rate higher when the embryos are frozen as high quality blasts, rated aa before freeze and thawed out the morning of transfer? Or are they higher when they are frozen at day three and after thawing allowed to grow for two days into blasts before the transfer? The first scenerio I described is my case. Why would a clinic chose to do it one way as oppoesed to the other with these two scenerios? Lastly, what is "typical" as far as how many embryos are transfered for a blast FET transfer in a 36 year old woman?

[pinky1]

hi aimee
our case is very similar.we did our fisrt ivf with 3 day 3 embryo(assisted hatching)bfp..but 6w3d no heartbeat but empty sac. at 7 weeks(today) md confirmed that the sac is empty//blighted ovum...i am 37..we have 3 frozen and i chose to have d&c instead of pills which are 80% effective with left over placental tissues....and we will proceed with frozen once i recover... hope this time we will both have strong heartbeats:):)..we also have 3 day 5 blast..i dont know how many we will thaw yet.
by the way,did you have to do anything for chemical pregnancy such as d7c,pills ..?
best of luck to you

[pinky1]

hi aimee
our case is very similar.we did our fisrt ivf with 3 day 3 embryo(assisted hatching)bfp..but 6w3d no heartbeat but empty sac. at 7 weeks(today) md confirmed that the sac is empty//blighted ovum...i am 37..we have 3 frozen and i chose to have d&c instead of pills which are 80% effective with left over placental tissues....and we will proceed with frozen once i recover... hope this time we will both have strong heartbeats:):)..we also have 3 day 5 blast..i dont know how many we will thaw yet.
by the way,did you have to do anything for chemical pregnancy such as d7c,pills ..?
best of luck to you

[Ghost]

Thanks to all who responded.I am truly grateful for your opinions and your stories.

Ghost-as always your insights are helpful and appreciated.In your experience is the FET success rate higher when the embryos are frozen as high quality blasts, rated aa before freeze and thawed out the morning of transfer? Or are they higher when they are frozen at day three and after thawing allowed to grow for two days into blasts before the transfer? The first scenerio I described is my case. Why would a clinic chose to do it one way as oppoesed to the other with these two scenerios? Lastly, what is "typical" as far as how many embryos are transfered for a blast FET transfer in a 36 year old woman?

The second method you describe should have better rates than the first.

Clinics often freeze at the same stage they transfer, although lately more clinics that do fresh transfers on day 3 wait to day 5 or 6 to freeze.

We usually don't like to transfer more than two. One is a good choice in many cases.

[aimee613]

Ghost -Thank you for your response. I am hoping that with a 70% thaw survival rate that at least one of the embryos survive the thaw.

Pinky- I am so sorry about your loss. I know how heartbreaking it is. My situation was much easier as I was earlier than you were in the pregnancy. I did not have to have a pill or a D and C. I just finished AF after my chemical pregnancy which came a little late and was much heavier and a little longer than usual. So I think that took care of it naturally. We are doing our FET next month and will probably fall in the middle to third week of November if all goes smoothly. Based on my age, 36, I would like to transfer two if they both survive the thaw and RE agrees to this. When do you think you will do your FET?

[pinky1]

i will have d&c oct 22nd and then hopefully within a month things will go to normal so i can start FET. hope everything will be ok this time for both of us:)