HAS ANYONE HAD SUCCESS AFTER NO FERTILIZATION WHEN DOING IVF

[WISCONSINGAL]

THANKS FOR ALL YOUR HEARTFELT THOUGTS AND ADVICE. I'M MAKING AN APPOINTMENT FINALLY......IT'S BEEN 3 WEEKS NOW SO I'M CALMED DOWN ENOUGH TO DISCUSS WHAT ALL WENT WRONG.....EVEN THOUGH WE DID EVERYTHING BY THE BOOK.......AND I WAS TOLD EVERYTHING WAS PERFECT, EVEN THE DAY OF THE ET.......I'M ALSO MAKING SOME CALLS ON A DIFFERENT CLINIC A COUPLE HOURS AWAY.....HECK IT CAN'T HURT TO GET A SECOND OPINION AND WHAT'S ANOTHER $250.00 CONSULATION......???

THANKS AGAIN FOR ALL THE EARS.......AND HELPFULL SUGGESTIONS!

[REACH-AEJ]

Our first IVF cycle in June was with ICSI and yielded 7 egss, 4 viable eggs (ave quality) and none fertilized with ICSI. We were devastated and our clinic had only had this happen once before - ever.- and this is a very big clinic. They were not positive for future success.

We did every test known (genetic and chromosonal) and they still had no explanation. Unknown infertility.

We tried another IVF/ICSI cycle this November. They changed our protocol to the ZEV protocol which did not include suppression (Lupron). They typically do this with women over 38, but they needed to try something more extreme with me (I just turned 35).
I also started doing acupuncture at the suggestion of my IVF nurse. I investigated this type of Western Medecine and was very impressed. Plus, I wanted to try everything.

We had 17 eggs with ER and 11 fertilized! We were shocked! We had 3 make it to the Blastocyst stage and they implanted 2 and froze 1. We are waiting for the preg test on December4th. I am praying that this is it.

We were very discouraged, but we believe the protocol change made a huge difference.

Good Luck!!

[Charity]

AEJ...Do you know how great it is to hear your story!!?? You've given both WIGal & I such hope. I have been doing quite a bit of research and found the same information you've indicated. I had 15 eggs, 3 very immature, 6 immature, and 6 mature. They did ICSI, and no fertilization. This just happened in October. The research I found suggested that there were instances when "fluke" zero fertilization outcomes result. There were studies that suggested they had little impact on the outcome of future cycles. However, to hear that you have had this experience is so great. My dh & I are trying another cycle in Jan/Feb 2007. Our RE suggested a no suppression protocol and super-stimulation, as well. Not that I was a poor responder, but didn't have the maturity they would have liked to see. Also, to have a larger number of mature eggs to increase our chances of success. He also suggested we not do ICSI, as he's had experiences where some eggs don't like to be "poked". He admitted it wasn't very scientific, but had a situation where a couple had two ICSI cycles with little fertilization. On their third cycle he recommended no ICSI, and they had awesome fertilization rates, and a live birth resulted. So, I'm really torn whether to do ICSI or not? We're not even sure if his guys will be able to penetrate on their own, so still mulling over that one...If you have any other recommendations, I would love to hear them. I wish you all the luck in the world with your BFP!! December 4th can't come soon enough for you, I'm sure!! Please keep us posted on your status. Thank you so much for sharing your story, too...

[REACH-AEJ]

Charity - I am so glad to give you something positive to relate to...I definitely know how you feel and I spent countless hours researching ICSI fertilization failure. It's good to hear from others that encountered this because we felt alone and hopeless for so long. My clinic told me it happens to less than 1% of people (w/ICSI). That was very discouraging...but my best advice is to NOT GIVE UP HOPE.

We seriously considered not doing ICSI on all, but my doctor was insistent that it was the best method and we ultimately left it up to him and the embryologist at the time of the ER. I would entertain doing 1/2 and 1/2 if you have a lot of eggs. Your doctor's theory makes sense and it sounds like he has a positive experience with this exact issue. That's encouraging - I didn't have any positive feedback from our doctor until we started to see completely different results during the stimulation.

We did a day 5 transfer with 2 blastocysts that were graded AA (perfect) and AB (Very Good)! Our doctor came in afterwards and again expressed how surprised he was considering...and glad that they had found the right protocol that really worked. I think that's key.

I don't know how you feel about acupuncture, but I do believe that it was effective in improving the quality of our eggs and embryos. My lining was also an issue originally (very thin), but this time it was super thick over 10MM at ER time. Acupuncture is also supposed to help with the lining and implantation. They even came to the clinic and did acupuncture right after my transfer while I was resting. I've never been into Western Medicine, but after researching, it seemed like it could only help. It is expensive though.

Good Luck with your Jan/Feb cycle - I will keep you in my prayers. I'm so positive for you because now I know that sometimes the doctors need to get to know your body and what works for you specifically...I believe your time is coming.

Please update me on your success!

[WISCONSINGAL]

REACH-AEJ & CHARITY
I CAN'T THANK YOU GUYS ENOUGH FOR POSTING THESE NOTES......I'M FINALLY MEETING WITH MY DR. DEC. 7TH TO DISCUSS WHAT WENT WRONG......AND TO POSSIBLY LOOK INTO CONTINUING THIS PROCESS. YOUR POST WAS SO UPLIFTING AND I CAN'T THANK YOU ENOUGH FOR TAKING THE TIME TO WRITE. CHARITY THANKS SO MUCH FOR TAKING THE TIME TO UPDATE ME ON THIS TOO, YOUR SO RIGHT........THIS DOESN'T GET ANY EASIER AND IF ANYTHING IT JUST KEEPS GETTING HARDER AND HARDER. I DON'T WANT TO GIVE UP, BUT I JUST DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH MORE I CAN TAKE.....OR HOW MUCH MORE OUR MARRIAGE CAN TAKE.......OR HOW MUCH MORE OUR WALLETS CAN TAKE.

TWO OF MY FRIENDS JUST ANNOUNCED THEY'RE HAVING BABIES NEXT YEAR AND I THOUGHT I WAS GOING TO HAVE A HEART ATTACK AND FREAK OUT.......THEY GO ON AND ON ABOUT HOW THEY WEREN'T EVEN TRYING.......AND HOW HAPPY THEIR DH'S ARE......AND THEN MY DH JUST GETS UP AND WALKS OUT OF THE ROOM....WE BOTH WANT THIS SO BAD AND I'M NOT READY TO GIVE UP, BUT I WANT TO FEEL LIKE I'VE TRIED EVERYTHING AND DONE MY BEST I'M JUST NOT SURE IF I'M AT THE RIGHT CLINIC OR NOT.......I JUST WISH A PERSON WOULD KNOW AND GET SOME KIND OF GUARANTEE......BUT I KNOW I'M DREAMING AND I SHOULD PINCH MYSELF NOW AND WAKE UP.

THANKS AGAIN FOR TAKING THE TIME TO SHARE THE INFORMATION AND PLEASE KEEP POSTING!

[REACH-AEJ]

Wisconsgal,

I know your frustration in terms of it getting harder and harder....my little sister just let us know Monday that she and her dh are pregnant! She just got married last year and got preg her 2nd month of trying...they started trying early just in case they had issues (after watching what we are going through). I'm very excited for her and very glad that she doesn't have to go through this, but it is difficult and hard to understand why some of us do...

It will be interesting to see if your doctor changes the protocol. Since that was your 1st IVF cycle, maybe they needed a chance to get to know you and your body and then they can adjust your protocol accordingly...hang in there and we will pray for you! My dh and I just keep saying that in 5 yrs. we will look back with our children (one way or another) and this will all seem a distant memory...

Good luck and let us know how your mtg goes!

[Charity]

AEJ...I am thinking of you today on your +ve beta (PMA)...I want to hear your results, so please post when you find out...I've got everything crossed for you that your journey to motherhood is well on its way!! Take care & best of luck!!

[davesu]

Hi Wisconsingal,

Personally, I feel everyone undergoing IVF needs to get answers for something that didn't workout. COnsidering the fact that you had good numebr of follicles and no problems with your DH's sperms, I can only doubt about the expertize of the doctor/embryologist. I also feel that you are paying more for IVF than at some of the other centres. I used to stay in Milwaukee and we started our journey at the Reroductive center of the Medical college of wisconsin. However, before we could start IVF I had to move to Texas. If commuting to MIlwaukee is not an issue, i recommend you see Dr. Estil Strawn. The fees are reasonable and a wonderful staff to visit.

Let me know how your 7th Dec appointment goes through. Typically they should tell you what happened and an action plan for correcting it in your next cycle. The bad part of IVF is that, it not only hurts you and your partner, it's a big also hurts your bank balance (big time). Guess, we have no other choice. All the best.

[REACH-AEJ]

Hi Charity,

Thanks for keeping us in your thoughts and prayers...unfortunately we got bad news. BFN It's been a very emotional day.

We were surprised, as most are I'm sure, because everything had gone so well. The unexplained, as you know, is frustrating. Getting over the fertilization hump was a big deal for us and I keep trying to remind myself that we have come a long way, but still have a long way to go...
I hate having to wait to start again, it's agonizing - especially over the holidays and especially now that my lil' sis is pregnant.

My DH handles it so much better than me, I wish I could be as positive and strong...he definitely is my rock.

I hope this is not discouraging to you. I think implantation is a whole new ball game. We are going to try again - possibly a Fresh cycle in combo with our 1 frozen embie. Not sure, we meet with the doctor in a week or so to discuss. Our next try would probably be late January early Feb start time. We'll have to keep in touch if we go through it again at the same time.

Happy Holidays and thanks again for your prayers. You're in ours as well!

[Charity]

AEJ...I'm so very sorry to hear about your bad news. I know there's nothing I can say to ease your pain but sounds like you have a great support system (dh) and are already looking forward.

Hey! If you do cycle in Jan/Feb, or even if you don't, you are more than welcome to join me and some other gals over on the General Forum, under the subject entitled "February Has My Heart - February Buddies Wanted"...There aren't a huge number of us yet, so it's a great point to join. It helps to come in at the beginning of a new thread to really get to know the ladies. The girls there are fantastic.

While we're waiting for our cycles to begin, we're just there passing the time and trying to support one another through the waiting game, which you are no stranger to...They have loads of information on FET's, too...I'm sure you're overloaded with info, as I have a hunch you're as much of a google-graduate as I, but we're there for you, even if it's just to vent...

Again, I'm so very sorry for you and dh, but as we know, this is a numbers game. Try to focus on how far you've come, and those frosties ready and waiting to be back with their mommy where they belong. That baby bump is going to happen for you...Just a matter of time...Take care, my dear, and keep in touch with us...

[REACH-AEJ]

Charity,

Thanks so much for your sweet message. It's like a roller coaster of emotions right now and even with the best support, it's so hard.

I will join your group that you referenced because I don't know a lot about FET and the waiting is going to be very difficult. I think it will be nice to have other people who know exactly how you feel and what your body goes through each time...

Thanks again and talk soon!

[WISCONSINGAL]

HI AEJ:
I'M SO SORRY TO HEAR ABOUT YOUR BAD NEWS.......I AM SAYING LOTS OF PRAYERS FOR THE PAIN & EMOTIONAL ROLLER COASTER YOU GUYS ARE GOING THROUGH.......I HOPE YOU KEEP WRITING AND KEEP POSTING THOUGH. I DON'T THINK I COULD BE GOING THROUGH THIS ALL WITHOUT THE HELP AND SUPPORT OF THIS BOARD. FAMILY AND FRIENDS ARE NOT SUPPORTING ME IN MY DECISION TO PURSUE THIS PROCESS BUT MY DH IS BOUND AND DETERMINED WE CAN DO THIS. TALKING AND WRITING TO "FRIENDS" WHO REALLY UNDERSTAND THE PAINS AND FRUSTRATIONS OF THIS WHOLE PROCEDURE IS WHAT IS KEEPING ME GOING RIGHT NOW. HUGS TO YOU AND YOUR DH....HANG IN THERE!

[REACH-AEJ]

Hi Wisconsgal,

Thanks for your kind words. Like you, the support here is so wonderful and it seems like as hard as others may try...unless they've been through it, they just don't understand.

I am so sorry that your friends and family are not supportive. Do they not understand or do they not agree with doing IVF? That has to be extremely difficult for you, but I'm glad your DH is so supportive and positive. That makes a world of difference. This whole thing can a take a toll on your relationship with friends, family and your spouse!

We are here for you anytime. We understand and I say DON'T GIVE UP until YOU are ready. You'll know when that time comes.

How did your appt go? I am interested to see if they recommend a protocol like we did. I got some interesting feedback from my appt after doing this aggressive protocol. I will share if you would like - more information the better!

Sending wonderful thoughts and prayers to you ~

[WISCONSINGAL]

THE APPOINTMENT WAS FAST AND SHORT......I HAD TO GO ALONE......WHICH DIDN'T HELP. I MET WITH THE DR, HE SEEMED UP BEAT, AND SAID "NOTHING WAS WRONG WITH THEIR EQUIPMENT OR PROCEDURE", SO IT'S UNEXPLAINED!!! THOSE FAMOUS LAST WORDS HIT ME AGAIN. NEXT HE WANTS TO DO THE FAST VERSION, NO LUPRON. DOES HE THINK IT WILL WORK.....THAT'S WHAT I ASKED, HE SAID "THERE'S NO GUARANTEE IF IT WILL, JUST LIKE THE LAST (3) TRIES BUT THAT WOULD BE HIS NEXT MOVE. THE NURSES SAID I'M ONE OF "MAYBE" 3 THAT THIS HAS EVER HAPPENED TO HERE.......THEY WANT ME TO TRY AGAIN.....I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO. MY DH IS NOW THINKING $$ AND HE SAID WE CAN'T SWING ANOTHER $10,700.00 JUST FOR THE IVF PROCEDURE...$3000.00 FOR MEDS.....AND WHATEVER THE ICSI & EXTRAS ALL COST......HIS COMMENT TO ME WHEN I GOT HOME WAS WHY DIDN'T THE DR JUST DO THIS "FAST" ROUTE 1ST, MY AGE (40) AND WEIGHT.....ALL HAVE FACTORS IN THIS SO WHY NOT TRY TO GET BIGGER AND MORE EGGS INSTEAD OF TAKING OUR TIME ON THIS WHEN TIME IS NOT REALLY ON OUR SIDE......I DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO ANSWER THAT. I SAID I AGREE....I GUESS WE'RE JUST DOING WHAT THEY SUGGEST AND I'M NOT SURE WHY BUT AFTER 2 FAILED IUI'S WHO KNOWS......THIS JUST SUCKS. I TURN 41 ON THE 30TH......TALK ABOUT ANOTHER BUMMER!!!!

[jenhope]

sorry to hear about your visit, I guess I am not sure what I would do. Have you thought about adoption? You would get a baby for sure, but it would take awhile. My husbands cousin was going through all this awhile ago and decided to do adoption because they didn't want to do IVF because it wasn't 100 %. When we decided to do this it was my husband who chose IVF over adoption. It didn't matter to me because I would like a baby and didn't care about how I got it. I just figured that I could give some other baby a better home. But my husband wanted to try for our own. And I guess the feeling like I would never be pregnant was hard, but I guess God knows better. But I wish you the best, I know it is very hard and you have things going against you. But miracles do happen, no matter what the statistics are. But you need to weigh your options, risks and benefits. Here is a prayer that I was given by a friend who tried for 2 years and gave up. She was given this prayer and she prayed every day and that first month she got pregnant. Miracles Happen. The prayer is this:
O good St. Gerard, powerful
intercessor before God and
Wonder worker of our day,
I call upon thee and seek thy
aid. Thou who on earth didst
always fulfill God's design
help me to do the Holy Will
of God. Beseech the Master of
Life, from Whom all paternity
proceedeth to render me
fruitful in offspring, that I
may raise up children to God
in this life and heirs to the
Kingdom of His glory in the
world to come. Amen

Good luck and best wishes.