The Over 40 Crowd

[Sand]

Hi Randa .. Much the same really. Slightly tender boobs, and AF cramps. I have broken out with spots on face. This is usually either AF or chocolate - and I ain't had any chocy.

Randa - Really, I don't believe you'd 'know' if you were pregnant. You're only 3 weeks gone, so I reckon it's impossible. Pls try to keep up some pma - you've no reason to doubt this cycle hasn't worked.

Sandra x

[mbelle1019]

Hi,

My name is Michelle and I am new to this site. I recently joined the general forum, and it was suggested I log on here as well. I am 39 (turning 40 in Oct) and my husband in 42.

We found out our first IVF cycle failed December 17th. While I had 10 fertilized eggs, the PGD only returned 2 as chromosomally normal and would not have survived even if we did get pregnant. My lining unfortunately was not very thick, just borderline. As a result, going in my doctor had wanted to implant more, not less. Needless to say, I cried through the entire procedure.

As I am sure everyone knows, it was really hard to get the negative. I had no spotting, my breasts were incredibly tender, etc. Even though it was not like I was pregnant and lost something; I felt as though I did.

We are starting our second cycle now. They put me on estrogen patches to help with the lining issue. And I have started acupuncture. My husband thinks I am a kook, but feels it can't hurt and if it makes me feel better..... I start my follistem tonight and go for my first blood test on Tuesday.

For those of you who have been through this more than once, any advice?

Michelle

[erjumper]

Michelle,
Welcome!
Not sure I have any advice to offer. I wish I could tell you it gets easier but it doesn't. Or at least in my opinion. Best of luck with your stims. The E2 should really help your lining this time. Keep us posted.

Randa,
Don't worry about not having symptoms. It's still too soon. Most of the symptoms I had were caused by the progesterone and E2. I've got everything crossed for you. Baby dust...baby dust!!
Lisa

[Kat]

Hi all, welcome Michelle & sorry to hear about your negative. It's not easy how ever many times you go through it. Do they know what is causing the abnormality? We are having a testicular bopisy to see if any genetic issues with DH sperm which might have caused me to miscarry.
Re acupuncture, I had it before my last cycle and that is the only time I have ever been pg - could obviously be because of using donor eggs instead of mine but I really do believe the acupuncture helped. Can't hurt to try it, that's what I say and who cares what other people think about it.

Randa - it's true you know, you can't tell this early - I was sure af was coming and then I got my positive. And I mean really sure - I just thought I knew it wasn't going to work in some female intuition kind of way but I was wrong.

Miserable wet Sunday here, but I am off to the sunshine tomorrow night!! DH has arrived safely in Lake Tahoe which is good, just texted me to say he is about to go for breakfast.

Hi to everyone else too
Lots of love
Kat xx

[DebraP]

oooh Kat, the idea of flying somewhere warm is just too much for me to bear. We had minus 10(C) earlier today and are expecting the same later this week. Have a fabulous time, relax, laugh lots and come back suitably chilled!

Randa, some faith please! When you were pregnant with your DDs, did you have symptoms a week or so after each fateful BD?? I doubt it. You're asking too much of yourself. You're the master of telling us to stay positive and stay with the programme. I'm not going all fake positive on you, I just think it's too early to tell anything for sure.

Michelle. Like Lisa said, it doesn't get any easier and you'll see I'm on try No.8, you just have to decide this is what you're going to do for x amount of time and go for it. Are you in the US? many of us in Europe have no choice but to have 2 embies transferred, that's the max. When I arrived for ET last weekend, my clinic had already started freezing 2 of my 4, even though they knew I'd rather have more, it wasn't an option. I'm deeply envious of your PGD. It's not allowed here (Norway), nor is donor sperm nor eggs. If people need either of these latter 2, they have to go abroad.

Hi to everyone else. The board is mighty quiet given how many there are of us having/preparing for treatment.

hugs all round,
Debra

[AMck]

Hi ladies,

Hi to Michelle and welcome. Sorry to see your experience so farMost of the ladies here would agree with you about having acupuncture. Good luck for Tues and your next cycle.

Here's our list
Home & Dry:
BigJ (Jules) - BFP 9/12/05. Nuchal scan looked good.

2ww:
Sandra - Test 15th Feb
Randa - Test 17th Feb
Debra - Test 21st Feb

On meds/about to start:
Anna - Waiting for AF to start short protocol
Diane - start meds 28th Feb.
Kat - Going to Spain 2nd March for testicular biopsy for new DE tmt
Lara - Starting fresh cycle in Feb
Tammy- SIS 9th Feb, IVF 2 March

Preparing:
Amfy - FET March/April
Bev- waiting for egg donor, considering abroad - appt 16th Feb at IM
Gail - planning March IVF
Jane- visit to Spain 24th Jan to decide next step
Jen - Taking time out then, next IVF in May...
Michelle - blood test Tues 14th Feb for 2nd cycle
Robyn - 2nd IVF cycle in March

Recent cyclers:
Lisa - BFP Feb but sadly lost at 5 weeks after DE
Caroline - natural FET cancelled Feb, failed thaw.

Randa, sending you a bucket of PMA. Please keep the faith. You are one of the most positive people here! Thinking of you and sending babydust your way!

Kat, have a great trip! It was miserable here today wasn't it? You are lucky to be going somewhere warm and sunny.

Bye for now
PMA to all
Anna x

[BevT]

Hi everyone and hi to Michelle. Wishing you luck with your tmt.

Well I need a bit of PMA from you gals out there. Our consultation with IM in Barcelona is looming, 16th Feb, and I just don't seem to be able to get my head round it. I haven't got the enthusiasm to sort out my packing (only going for 4 days, but don't know what to take for the weather!) and I can't seem to get my thoughts together.

Went to see my GP the other day (at his request - cos I'd rung to try and get some results of tests etc that IM wanted). He was very negative, asked me why I hadn't considered other clinics in the UK before considering going abroad. I was quite upset, and said that ALL the other clinics in the UK had a shortage of donors, and ALL had over 2 year waiting lists. He went on about the language barrier, we might misconstrue something, or think we were getting something that we were not, etc etc. THEN he said that because the law in Spain allowed payment to donors, that might attract "all sorts of strange people". He also said he had concerns about the lack of regulation as compared to the UK. I came away in tears. Beforehand, I had made my decision, thought I was doing teh right thing. All I wanted was a bit of support, but instead ............. It's alright for him, I thought, he's got his family.

I feel like I'm burying my head in the sand a bit. I need a kick up the backside and need to get organised. I think maybe that's the problem. I don't think I'm prepared or ready for the appt. but as DH is on half-term, we've organised the trip around that really. Need to write down all the questions I want to ask. I'm also worried that I don't know enough about different proceedures and tests that they can do to get the best out of it. It seems to me that in some cases, if you don't ask for something, they very often don't offer it, and just give you the bare bones of the treatment. I guess I'm just worried that there is something wrong with me that I don't know about which has caused the missed m/c's in the past and I don't know what to ask for to make sure I cover all the bases so to speak. Sorry to ramble but I need some encouragement that I am doing things the right way!

Anna, how are you doing? Did I read somewhere that you are off to Ireland for a break? Have a good time won't you.

Kat, wishing you happy hols - remember to take your sun screen! Kat, do you mind me asking, why do they think that your DH's sperm may have genetic issues causing you to miscarry? Or is it just a case of them covering all the bases?

Randa, still keeping everything crossed for you and DH. Just a few more days for you to hang on in there for.

Debra, same goes for you and Sandra too.

Lisa, glad to see you back with us. Hope you and DH are doing OK. What is the E2 you refer to in your post to Michelle? Do they prescribe that before ET to encourage the lining to thicken?

Hi to everyone else on this thread. Please send me any spare PMA that you have floating around, to get me through this next week!

LOL Bev xxx

[mbelle1019]

Hi Everyone,

Yes, I am in the US, Florida actually. And we are going through our own cold spell here, although, I know I have it lucky compared to many.

I cannot believe they only allow two embryos to be implanted abroad. I was wondering why so many had talked about frozen cycles. I guess they are trying to limit either the possibilty of multiples or selective reduction surgeries.

Kat,

PGD - pre- implantation diagnosis tests for various chromosomal abnormalities. We initially did it primarily to test for downs. But is also identifies anueploidies (other chromosomal abnormalities) which, yes, if the pregnancy took would likely result in miscarriage. The doctor really tried to discourage us from doing PGD again this time, due to the expense, saying he would be more aggressive with how many embryos he put back. But, we felt the odds could be against us, with 8 out of 10 being bad the last time, I want greater assurance they are putting back good ones. : )

Why do they think your situation could be your husband's sperm? My doctor is assuming it is my egg quality. I initally tested between 8.4 and 9.2 for FSH levels.

Bev, you ARE doing the right thing! I admire your courage in going to another country. You may encounter challenges, but look at how far you have come so far. I believe they also pay donors in the US. I am sure there are some kooks who donate, but my understanding is that it is often college kids looking to make some money. I believe in the US they screen the donors. You will be in my thoughts and prayers on the 16th.

Sandra, Randa, and Debra ---- many prayers your way as well this week for the BFP : )

[AMck]

Bev, a bucket of PMA to you!
Your dr doesn't sound very sympathetic to your needs. This to your doc


You go girl, do whatever it takes to make your dream come true, bring it on!!

I know Kat went to Barcelona, maybe she could help?

Wishing you loads of luck for 16th, I hope all goes well. Thinking of you

Anna x

[Kat]

Hi
Bev - your doctor has made me really cross!! There is no language barrier whatsoever - Victoria is English and deals with all the English patients. And the Spanish staff speak very good English. Also, re the donors - yes they pay them but them also screen them with something like a 200 question questionnaire and they are really careful, anyone with any family history of anything at all suspect will not get through. Yes, Spanish law may be different but does he think they are backward or something? Why - because they are not English?? They are ahead of the UK in some areas of research. Someone wants to have a word with him - let me at him!!
Actually, my GP was similar - said he wouldn't organise my blood test as Spain might read the results differently - how stupid was that?? They just don't understand.
I know I am biased but I would encourage anyone in the UK especially at our age to go abroad for donor tmt - I am on a UK waiting list and after 18 months still no news on a donor whereas I had my first appt in Spain Sept 1st and had ET end Oct. You can even email IM at any time and they will answer even the most daft questions and give support, something I don't get from my GP. You will find Victoria easy to talk to - tell her all your concerns.

Michelle & Bev - The clinic think that because we finally fell pg with donor eggs that the cause of the failure could have been the sperm (I was never pg with my own eggs). We did not have a high fertilisation rate with the donor eggs which is also a pointer to a sperm problem. We don't know if it will give us any answers but has to be worth a try.

Hi to everyone else and I'll try to pop in during the week especially as I will be looking for good news from Sandra & Randa during the course of the week.

And Bev - best of luck in Barcelona, I'll be thinking of you on 16th. Say hello to Victoria & Lurdana from me, Kathryn Killner (my true identity!)

Lots of love to all
Kat xx

[DebraP]

Bev, what a stunningly unhelpful conversation to have with your xenophobic GP. It's no wonder people take the opportunity to look for better service elsewhere with attitudes like that. Be glad he's not someone you'll have to deal with too often from now on, better still, ask to swap doctors in the clinic if you can.

You're going for a consultation, a look-see, that's all at this stage. If you like what you hear and feel confident that they can help you, then and only then will you go ahead. It's not like you've signed up for something before you've met anyone.

The 5-day forecast will give you a rough idea of what you can expect. This week is between 10-15 degrees, cloudy, bit of sun, no rain (as yet). Sunrise at 0800, sunset at 6.30. Take the sort of things you'd wear in late March/April. Or buy a few nice things whilst over there!

Don't let your GP get you down. You're doing what you can to maximise your chances, feel empowered and strong. Oh....kick that man's arse next time you see him!!

hugs
Debra

[lara]

Hi,

Bev, just to echo what Kat and Debra have said about your GP - what a prat! The second time I was pg from IVF I went to my GP to get referred onto the NHS antenatal process - nuchal scan and all the rest of it. All I needed was for him to tap me into the computer system and I would get an appt at the local hospital. Needless to say, I left there in tears after he'd bullied me, questioned me, and completely stressed me out because I hadn't brought along my printout from the 7 week scan at my clinic. You're lucky if you get a nice GP, but it's a lottery, and because they're in the medical profession they think that gives them licence to foist their opinions on us. If you wanted his opinion, you'd ask for it. He's not there to give you his biased and ill-founded views - you're paying his wages - he has to give you the blood test and keep his fat mouth closed.

My brother lives in Spain, his children are half Spanish, and half of the UK are there for most of the summer - did I miss something here? The health service in a lot of countries leaves the UK looking like a third world country. So what if egg donors get paid? Why should they go through all that for free? It's an operation! In the UK, people get free IVF if they donate their eggs - egg sharing - but that means only people with fertility problems donate eggs.

Listen - Jules went abroad and she's pg - if she hadn't, she'd still be on waiting list.

If a GP heard you went abroad to get your kid the single measles vaccine, they'd go nuts about that as well. They like to have control.

Kat, have a fab trip!

Anna, come on hurry up AF, I'm waiting for you!!

I seem to have calmed down a bit on the Menopur lark, only slightly barking now instead of the full staight-jacket number. Still a card short of a full deck, but back in the game at least.

Tomorrow I get to spend my wretched birthday having the dreaded scan. I'm bricking it. This gets harder every time.

good luck Randa, Sand, Debra, xxxxxxxx

Lara

[AMck]

Hi all,
In need of some PMA Have just phoned my clinic to ask for some advice regarding the missing AF. Nurse said that it would be better if it was really late as the clinic is shutting down for 2 weeks to move building!
They are closing on 24th Feb and not opening until 6th March

They aren't starting anyone off on meds this week as they wouldn't be able to do scans and EC etc... I asked if I could go private elsewhere, should my dates clash, the reply was a definite NO! They would refer me to another clinic but they would want to check me over and would probably aske me to wait a month anyway
Upshot is I don't want AF to arrive now! So stop jigging please

Then the nurse said to 'get things sorted' as they shut down for Easter and it looked like my dates may clash with that too! Honestly. I give up!

I have waited 12months to get to this stage with cancelled cycles, no follies from stimming, cysts etc.... another few months may just send me over the edge! Talk about a rollercoaster ride. Frustration is at an all time high.

Lara, hope scan goes Ok tomorrow, and Happy Birthday

Home & Dry:
BigJ (Jules) - BFP 9/12/05. Nuchal scan looked good.

2ww:
Sandra - Test 15th Feb
Randa - Test 17th Feb
Debra - Test 21st Feb

On meds/about to start:
Anna - Waiting for AF to start short protocol
Diane - start meds 28th Feb.
Kat - Going to Spain 2nd March for testicular biopsy for new DE tmt
Lara - Scan 14th Feb
Tammy- SIS 9th Feb, IVF 2 March

Preparing:
Amfy - FET March/April
Bev- waiting for egg donor, considering abroad - appt 16th Feb at IM
Gail - planning March IVF
Jane- visit to Spain 24th Jan to decide next step
Jen - Taking time out then, next IVF in May...
Michelle - blood test Tues 14th Feb for 2nd cycle
Robyn - 2nd IVF cycle in March

Recent cyclers:
Lisa - BFP Feb but sadly lost at 5 weeks after DE
Caroline - natural FET cancelled Feb, failed thaw.

PMA to all on 2ww
Anna x

[BevT]

Hey everyone,

well I'm feeling a bit better today, have started to make a list of questions for my appt. and done all my washing and DH's so we will have some clean clothes to take with us. Just got to do the ironing now - groan.

Thanks girls for all the encouragement

Lara, thanks for your comments, and yes I quite agree, why shouldn't donors get paid, when you think that anyone wishing to do so has to stick themselves for how ever many days/weeks, then go through either a painful proceedure under local or go through the risks of a general. Glad the menopur isn't affecting you quite so much now, and wishing you a very happy birthday for tomorrow (how lovely to be born on valentines day). Fingers crossed for a bumper crop of tiny follies growing.

Debra, thanks also for your comments and for filling me in on the weather. Your comment about maximising my chances is filling me full of PMA and yes, I would like to "kick his arse" (my GP's) at some stage.

Kat, thanks too for your response. I'm so glad that there are English personnel there, I was fairly sure there would be from some of your earlier posts and my appt. is with a "Dr Walker". Sounds English to me, or at least not particularly Spanish. Yeh, I was surprised by my GP's attitude as I was sure yourselfl and Julie would not have entertained treatment there if the donors weren't screened properly and you were not happy with their abilities etc.

I reckon your GP was reluctant to organise your bloods because he didn't want to have to pay for them from his budget. Money money money, it always comes down to it doesn't it.

Interesting to see that you too still have no news of a donor in the UK after 18 months, I rang my clinic last week to see where I was on the list, and because I am CMV negative, they said that I had an even longer wait as there are more positive donors going through. There were 8 more people in front of me, all CMV negative, and only 2 donors having finished the screening, both of which were CMV positive, so on that basis, it could be forever until they get another 8 or 9 CMV negs come through the system.

I just cannot wait indefinately - at 46 each day I look in the mirror to find more grey hair and more wrinkles. It's not that I have a thing about age really, it's just that I am so conscious of "people" looking at me when I go for scans etc, thinking what is that old woman doing here. Surely she can't be serious about having a baby, she's way too old. I know it's daft, but the first time I got pg, 8 years ago, I went to the maternity hospital for my first scan and ALL the other girls in the room that were my age were with THEIR daughters, and it was the daughters that were having the scans. I felt so self-conscious! So I'm off to the hairdressers tomorrow for a cut and colour to try and disguise myself as someone of "child bearing age". Should make me feel better anyway.

I understand now Kat why you are having the biopsy (or rather why DH is). Wishing you luck with that, it's the beginning of March isn't it? Made me smile when you put your "true identity" at the bottom - makes you sound very 007'ish. Will of course say hello to Victoria and Lurdana if I meet them. Have a great holiday, and will speak when you get back.

Anna, thanks so much for your PMA and your little people - they really made me smile.

Hi Michelle, thanks too for your words of encouragement. This site is just so great. You cannot believe how much it helps to have friends all over the world rooting for your and supporting you. Fantastic!!!

Randa, Debra and Sandra, I reckon I'll have to wait till I get back to see how your gals have gone on with your 2 ww's. Sending you lots of love and luck for your BFP's.

Hope everyone else is ok - we're not flying out to Spain till Wed. morning so will look in again tomorrow to see how everyone else is doing.

LOL Bev xxx

[BevT]

Hey Anna,

just seen that you have posted again, while I was busy typing.

You poor thing, having got yourself psyched up for the start of your stimming etc to be told that they are shutting down for a fortnight. Do they not understand that AF waits for no man. I can totally understand your frustration, especially if you have to wait for another month too. I really hope that the easter break doesn't interfer also, that would be just the icing on the cake.

I will send you some PMA back Anna, but unfortunately I have NO IDEA what so ever how to put all those little dancing people on to my posts.

Keep your pecker up and I hope that AF just fits in at the right time between all these obstacles that the clinic is putting in front of you. Damn cheek, fancy closing for Easter. Anybody would think they needed time off or something. (I like that little face, makes me smile).

Anyway, Anna, take care and enjoy your visit to your sister's.

LOL Bev xxx