How do you decide

[Traci]

How do you decide when enough is enough ???
I have a high FSH of 23 but nothing else wrong except since I have had 4 ICSI treatments my periods are all over the place! last treatment 2 years ago, would have thought by now they would have sorted it although I presume by my high fsh it could be that !!! anyway I have had 2 x ICSI with my own eggs and 2 x donor eggs using ICSI . My sister has offered to give me eggs but where I have not had TMT for 2 years I have probably accepted that its all over . I am not what everyone would say as desporate and my life would be over cause I seem to have gone through that and come out the other side , I guess its just an age thing I dont know . I feel I should have councilling to draw the final line under it all but at the same time scared to step foot inside the door for the fear of going backwards !!!! DOES THIS MAKE SENCE???? I am 40 next birthday and Cam will be 50 and we agreed that we would stop when I am 40 . its weird cause I feel like I should pick a day and say thats it but affraid that that day will come , Gosh what a Sh***Y decision we have to make ! I wish there was something physically wrong with me then it would be easy to decide . Also the next go with my sister is about £7000 and we have spent £16000 already!!!!! also my sister and I are not entirely close and she is just going through divorce so the odds are very bad also I have been told by a consultant that an egg used from a sister is less of a chance of working ! The other thing is I have never even gotten PG so I feel thats good as I havent had to feel the pain of loss and what if I get close next time and lose it /them I dont think I could cope .

Sorry to go on

Do I cut my loses and say whats ment to be will be or go one more time in these cercumstances!!!!!!

come on girls need help
from an old timer here

Trace x

[DebraP]

Hi Traci. It's lovely to see you back posting but sad to see you're on this side.

I never have known when to give up. I'm now one of those people who I looked at askance when I first came on here, 2+ years ago. 8 tries?? why don't they give up etc. We've had a good hit rate and of the 7 tmts that went ahead, I've had 4 +ves, albeit only one baby, so far. That 4 from 7 hit rate is why we went on. I have to be honest and say we wouldn't have continued much past 3 I suspect if all had been -ve. Because our first try was 100% successful, it meant we always knew we could do it. I am also bl**dy minded and always have been. I don't know when to stop.

The cost side scares me to death. I'm 42 next month and have no pension to talk of. All our money has gone into IVF. As a self-employed, non-married, foreigner in an expensive country, this is petrifying. Still, it was the choice we made.

As for you, turning 40 sounds like a huge change beforehand but nothing actually happens on the day to make any difference to how you feel, about anything. When was your last consultation? When was your FSH last measured? What does Cam think? is he ready to carry on for a while?

The 'trying at 40+' group is full right now. There must be 15 of us all active, and ranging in age upto 46. You might want to talk to BigJ (Jules Taylor) who is nearly 43 and currently 15 weeks pg after donor eggs in Kiev. She raves about the clinic, cost and of course, the result.

I can't say anything really meaningful to you as each situation is completely different. I hope you also hear from people with different perspectives from mine.

hugs
Debra

[sally76]

Hi Traci

Sorry to hear you're in this situation. I remember thinking to myself how we'd always planned on having that 3rd and final ICSI attempt - and then the clinic advised us to stop. In retrospect, if I'd have had another failed attempt, I probably wouldn't have stopped there. I know I'd have wanted to soldier on, until the dream happened.

I found it tough because after the 2nd cycle, I too was deemed infertile. Therefore it was never going to happen with or without IVF. But, there's no medical name, I don't have any label that tells me why I'm infertile. Which is what makes it so frustrating.

I think you'll just know in your heart of hearts, when the time is right to stop. Whether that be a financial decision or otherwise.
In our case, although I especially found it very difficult to cut those ties and even consider another route, now we truly believe that it was meant to be. If I had my time over again, I wouldn't change a single thing. I honestly think that if things hadn't have happened as they did, then we would never have met our daughter. And that thought is... well, not worth thinking about!

Best of luck with your decision, thinking of you.

xx

[Alison]

Traci, my old friend, so lovely to see you posting and so sorry to hear you sounding unsure about what to do next.

Yours is the million dollar question and I don't think anyone else can tell you when enough is enough. Its more than two years since I did my "last" cycle and told myself that was it, and then I ended up doing a "final, final" cycle last year. It was only really doing that cycle that I really knew it was over - I hated every moment in the waiting room, and knew in my heart of hearts that even if I got a positive I wouldn't have a viable pregnancy - and it was true. I think the decision not to go on has been a mixture of gut feeling and information I was given. I've had 3 biochemical pregnancies now, and feel now that its more than bad luck that none of them has progressed. And at my last follow up appointment the doctor more or less told me that my only chance of a baby was to find a surrogate, which isn't something I'm prepared to consider.

But that doesn't mean I don't have occasional pangs, particularly seeing brave people like Debra going for it again, and I'm sure that the fact I still lurk here is a sign that I'm not completely "over" my infertility - as if anyone gets over it!

Like Sally though, after a very long time we are now considering adoption and that, for us, seems to offer a route to the family we are hoping for. I suspect this new focus is helping the process of moving on.

With lots of love and fond memories of the old days!!

Alisonx

[Thistle]

Hi Traci. I am so sorry to hear that you can see the end of the road, I too have reached that place.

I have just read a post that I did over a year ago that asked "What now?" and I can't believe that I am still asking myself the same question.

We went ahead again last summer, I had been made redundant so I saw it as a perfect time for us to have one last try. Because I have an auto-immune condition (as well as all the other problems) we tried steriods at the same time. Big mistake. My immune system was so low I had nothing to fight the serious infection I picked up from the egg ret. I then spent a week in hospital, lost a stone and ½ in weight and was generally a very poorly girl. They insisted that we at least try with the two embies but I cried and cried because I knew that they had no chance what so ever. They didn't and that was another neg to add to my list.

That was last summer, I still haven't been able to work and have had two operations to sort out the site of the infection which never really went away. The last one was the end of January, it went ok but unfortunatly it has done permanent damage and I might have to have more surgery in the future.

I too am grateful to my waste of space body that I have never had a pos., althought thinking about it it hasn't made it any easier. Knowing that I have failed, is life changing.

I was told at 25 that with all my problems I would need to have a hysterectomy at 30. I wanted one there and then I begged them but I was told to go away and try to have a family. It took till I was 30 to even start the tmt and now at 34 I have no strength left and with the recent stays in hospital to have corrective surgery from an ivf infection I can't even face the building let alone talk to the doctor.

I am sorry I have gone on about what has happened to me but that is all I know.

I hope it helps to read that you are not the only one hanging over the edge by your fingernails and wondering if it would be easier to just let go.

Love Thistle x x

[Traci]

Thank you Debra Sally Alison and Thistle ,
Gosh what some highs and lows to read , first of all Debra what great news for you and well done for sticking it out , I suppose my choice would be so different if I could use my own eggs , when you have your scan how many weeks will you be ? Sally you too having a lovely girl of 2 you were obviously chosen to be a Mummy to this little angle and she is a very lucky girl to have parents that will spoil her rotten . Alison thank you for your reply It takes courage to make that final decition and to see that you are going for adoption is great , cant wait to hear how you get on , keep hope there and I will keep everything crossed that it all goes smoothly for you two . and as for you Thistle you poor love I feel for you greatly what with all the complications you have had on top of all the pain with the IVF , would you concider adoption? I know that we wont be going that route as Cameron is 50 next birthday and I know we wouldnt get far not to mention taking on a child that could need help and I feel it takes special people to do that job and I am not one of them I am as weak as you can see , if they had lost their parents or something bad I couldnt cope with the effects it would have on them , now if we were younger I would have gone to china a got 2 little girls that they dont want but cam isnt up for that he says he is too old !!!!! anyway I will soldier on and one day it will feel right I am sure .

Thank you once again girls

Trace x

[ogr1]

hey me old mate.. i have been wondering about you?
did you get my e-mail?

this is the sh*ts to have to go threw this part.
but we do survive.
i as you have always said that at 40 i would be done. and when i turned 40 i pretty much lost it.

yes a huge part of me would love to have our baby but another part has moved on.
church today was a brand new baby boy. i did good until she started breast feeding. that just hit me hard.
then i wonder if i shouldn't call and push our clinic to find a donor
embie and have my surgery ..
but i think that i know my time has past and count my blessings on what i do have...
but i do want to tell ya that although at times in can be hard
i don't regret having our foster children. at times i do wish that we only had 1 or 2 but i couldn't chose between them.
they have truly been a gift for us..

i am sorry about your sister and her going threw her divorce.

i think when craig and i are in our 60es we will go on a mission at some orphange and get to spoil all of the babies....

your friend from us becky
i still hope to get there some day

[Macca8]

Tracy,

I totally sympathise with your difficult decisions. I have just had a failed 3rd ICSI attempt where the only 2 embryos I had from the egg collection, died a few hours before the ET. I remember feeling so desperate and so devasted that something so cruel had happened. I've had three miscarriages in my life. 14 weeks PG 10 years ago, 8.5 weeks from 1st IVF and 5.5 weeks from 2nd IVF. The fact I have become pregnant keeps making me go for it and you know what, that's not such a good thing. I use to think "ah well at least I can get pregnant" but what's the point when they go, for unexplained reasons aswell... so I have definitely come to the conclusion it would have been better if I had never got pregnant at all.

Anyway, I'm trying for the very last time in July. I never produce enough eggs to get any frozen, so it really will be last go. I know I have to let go of the dream or it could ruin my life. I have been having counselling for the last 3 months to ensure that when I make this decision, I am doing it for the right reasons. I find it hard still as my husband has 2 adult children from his first marriage and I have none and the reason we need IVF is because of his vasectomy. Don't get me wrong, he made the right decision all those years ago for the right reasons but it does make me feel s**t sometimes because we cannot try the natural way.

I hope you can find peace in whatever decision you make. I know it's so hard.

XXXX

[Traci]

Macca8
Thank you for your reply
The best of luck for July, I will cross everything for you , I too have 2 x step children and Cameron too had a vasectomy reversal which has added to things to I really know where you are coming from .

must dash have to get to work

Best of luck
Trace x

[KarenSmiff]

Hello All

I made this decision after our last treatment in Dec - Traci I remember you from many posts - as I have been surfing these boards for what seems like eternity. Well our last cycle was Dec 05 - & I have said after spending £20K and pumping loads of nasty crappy drugs inside me,,, enough is enough. Although my heart sinks at the very thought of it.

I dont know whether you can remember but I am a crap responder to drugs. Managed to get a positive on 3rd attempt with one 2 cell embie and m/c at 9wks in 2004. That gave me the hope to go for another go a year later only to have that cycle cancelled -only made 1 embie again and it didnt live long enough to transfer. My last go was by using a donor - I received 8 embies, WOW, two best ones put back but BFN. The others werent good enough to freeze. That was £5K gone. Although I always keep saying, you cant put a price on a human life, money does not count.

I am pondering on adoption. I too have two step children, and my dh had had a vasecomty for first wife and reversed it for me. His last count was 15Million and 53% motility but he has antibodies which apparently my body kills off. Our stories are quite similar. I have been reading up on adoption website and it states that they wont even consider anyone who has had IVF in less than 6 months previous - so will carry on pondering on for another couple of months and see how we feel.

Take care

Karenxxxx

[divinagracia]

Hi Traci,

I know how you feel hun and I am so sorry to hear your so sad but you know I had tried with my DH so many times and never ever got pregnant. Four attempts were BFN's and on another attempt the eggs died when we had them unfrozen. So that was five all in all

We had put so much emotion into this over the past 4-5 years and we were also broke, we had spent about 20,000 Pounds . It hurt me so much everytime I did the preggy test and it was NEG

I felt that emotionally and mentally I just could not go on anymore. The pain of another negative would be too much so we decided to abandon the idea as it was way too painful for me and my DH.

After a few months we decided that if we dont do it again then I will never get preggy ever and that really is the finality of it. I could not bear this thought and my husband said that if we really want this with all our hearts and souls then he was prepared keep going on until we changed the odds - It was easier said than done because it was yet more money and we were in debt.

So in Nov we decided to give it yet another go - Up until this point I still had not even been pregnant once so felt maybe I was flogging a dead horse. My blood tests did reveal a slightly higher than normal rate of killer cells so I was put on various drugs to try and help this.

To cut this long story short I finally fell pregnant with twins in December I am 16 weeks now so feel fairly safe although you never can tell and One twin has a heart condition which could indicate Downs so the pain does not stop even when your pregnant!

But I guess what I am trying to say is we felt like you but something in my heart told me to go on and we did and we finally got there. I would say to just follow your heart and if you want to continue then do it with all your heart - There is no right decision just whatever is best for you and your DH...

Love Jen X

[Kat]

Hi to Traci and everyone else, so many names I recognise from way back, some I have spoken to recently, others not. I understand, I am at the same place, do we or don’t we go on?

I have always been a poor responder, 1st cycle abandoned, 2nd cancelled due to DH accident, 3rd & 4th to ET but both neg, 5th cancelled, 6th to EC but no eggs, 7th pregnant with donor eggs in Barcelona but blighted ovum & missed miscarriage Dec ’05. If I read that catalogue of disaster from anyone else I’d think why are you keeping on going?

Just as we were about to go to Spain last week for a testicular biopsy recommended by the clinic to see if any genetic problems with DH, he decided we were not going. And when I say not going I mean not going ever. He says he hasn’t made make the decision not to try again but I agree he does have valid arguments for not trying again, not just that it has taken over our lives but the fact that the chance of it actually working is so slim. We’re not getting any younger, we should move on.

Makes me wonder if I just keep blindly going on for the sake of it, why am I doing it? Am I wanting to carry on because I always thought I would have children or because I really want one? Am I just being selfish?

Been feeling very down and keep crying, scared of turning into a bitter & twisted old woman who hates anything remotely connected to children, scared that when I turn into this bitter & twisted old woman that DH will leave me.

Can't quite get my head round not having the one thing I have always thought I would have and hating other people who have it. Had a dream this morning just before I woke up about a girl at work who will have her baby when I should have been having mine, woke up and cried. When I see her I hate her.

Feel very lonely. Understand what DH thinks but can't quite be sure I am ready to give up.

Perhaps I shouldn't see it as giving up, perhaps I should see it as getting my life back. Need to pull myself together, stiff upper lip & all that. I too wonder if I should have counselling to help me come to terms with all of this. Does it exist? How can someone understand who hasn’t been through it whether they are a counsellor or not? Can they help me to feel less of a failure and help me not to hate people who have what I don’t ?

I don’t know if it is easier or more difficult to decide having been pregnant. Maybe it has shown me that even if I do get pg, there are no guarantees. What are the odds of having a healthy child at the end of all this? Both over 40, ttc 7 years, history of poor response, variable to low motility & count, possible genetic issues with sperm, one pregnancy in 7 attempts which never developed past a few weeks. No one would put money on a successful outcome knowing all of that would they? Why am I considering spending another £6.5k?

Maybe if someone could tell me why me, why us? Why can’t I have what I have always wanted when others seem to get it so easily?

How do you decide whether to adopt or not? I don’t know if I’ve got the energy to start on something new. I am supposed to be ‘looking into it’ so we can make a decision one way or the other. I think maybe in my heart of hearts I know it’s not right for us. I want DH’s baby, I want to carry a child. DH is also not sure. I got over the donor eggs issue by convincing myself I would be carrying the child and to be honest in the short time I was pg I forgot it wasn’t ‘mine’.

I know I need to work through this and no one can give me any answers, thanks for reading & sorry I went on so long!

Kat xx

[Traci]

Kat
oh you are as mixed up as me !!!!! I think there should be a class or a place where not just ourselves go to to get counciling but for a few to bond together with all sorts of stories about their ivf failiers to get us all through it together then we might not feel the only ones its happening to , I know we have this site which is a godsend but when you are on your own at work surrounded by people that we feel are NORMAL!!! and we feel like it is only happening to us, it would be good to think that there are worse people off than me! thats what I try to do , when ever I feel down and sorry that I will never be a Mum I think of a friend fellow IVFer who has buried 4 babies over 20 weeks and just cant imagine what her head is like . I dont want to go to my clinic or ring them at the mo for the fear of going backwards!!!!! I also feel that I wnat the whole package , I want the experiance of carrying my child so adoption would not work for me .

Jen
Well done for having the determination it certainly has paid off and I do honestly believe in following your heart . I will keep everything crossed for you and whenever I light my lucky candel I will wish for you

Karen
I do remember you Its nice to see old posters still here not that that is a good thing cause I whish we were writing on the mothers after ivf forum. we are so alike with our situation , I wish you all the best for your next stage of adoption thats if its for you , let me know how you get on . its a shame we dont all live close we could all meet up one day .

well girls I am sorry if I have missed anyone out , I am flying right now on my way to work and I have just had false footballers wives nails put on for my birthday on Monday DH and I are going to the lakes for a long weekend. get away from all of life

if anyone wants to meet for a chat or day out I live in oxford .


Trace x

[lorraineg]

Hi Traci

I have not been on this site for ages (Amelia keeps me way too busy) but I have been so moved by reading your posts and I wanted to say that I often think of you. No one can help you with decisions, just know that we all keep you in our thoughts...not much consolation I know!
With my love and best wishes
Lorraine.

[BecP]

HELLO LADIES

I JUST WANTED TO SAY, I'VE READ ALL OF YOUR STORIES, AND I THINK YOU ARE ALL EXCEPTIONALLY BRAVE, WONDERFUL LADIES.

I HOPE WHATEVER YOU DECIDE, YOU FIND PEACE WITH YOUR DECISION. IT IS YOUR DECISION AND YOURS ALONE TO MAKE.

THINKING OF YOU ALL.

X