Jo Lorrain, Sharon, hi!

caz · Post by **caz** » Mon Jul 14, 2003 6:23 am

HI gals Been reading your posts from my mums but annoyingly couldnt post. Jo......well....WHAT can I say, you were SO chilled about the whole thing and now LOOK what you've gone and done. AMAZING AMAZING. And all that feeling guilty rubbish - pah! SO pleased for you , you have given me some hope. Have you told anyone yet or are you gonna wait for 12 weeks? Exciting!! Sharon and Lorraine - I feel your pain. Thursday was AWFUL for me, and I guess you had a similar day on Friday. As you all said tho, eaach day does seem to get a bit better. The only time I get a bit upset is when I'm doing somethign and in my mind I think, I thought I might have been pg by the time I did this! Really daft and totally pointless, but hey. was so good to see dh. Altho by that stage (saturday am) I'd kind of cried all my tears. So to be honest I dont know if he'll ever know what it was really like for me on Thursday, i think he thinks I just had a normal period- which as you know isnt quite the case. But he has been very sweet tho - bless!! Thank GOD my parents were on hand on Thursday tho. How are you two holding up? Have you made any decisions about what , if anything, you might do next? We I guess will go and see doc and see what he says. I 'm pretty sure he'll say, you should consider using a donor. Which we talked about over the weekend and I think we will if all else fails - but I just have this niggling doubt about whether dh would feel the same about a donor.Nightmare. I kind of feel that if it didnt work this time with two really good embies then why should it ever work?? IF you guys are gonna try again and IF the doc says its worth us trying again...I think we'll be giving it a shot in OCtoberish. Maybe we could all team up again - I cant imagine doing it without you. Take care Let me know how you are all going - you included please jo!! Cazxx

sharoninsomerset · Post by **sharoninsomerset** » Mon Jul 14, 2003 7:06 am

Hi Caz, So good to hear from you at last. You seem much more together now, it does get easier with time, doesn't it and I'm sure DH being back helped tons. I'm hoping this week will be much better, getting back to routine and starting to feel normal again will help loads. As to the future, well we need to get the Hydro sorted out, so depends on that really, but I'd like it sorted out soon then start again in October, so hopefully we can be buddies again!! Don't lose heart about your treatment, the doc may say give it another go, and as for the embries sticking you will have already upped the odds as you've had one go (If you know what I mean) and there is no reason why they shouldn't, it just has to be your time. ps how was the wedding? Lorraine How are you? Thanks for you emails, you are such a wise and thoughtful person and I have really valued your friendship. I know that you plan to move on with your lives but I hope you keep popping in to catch up and keep in touch, especially over the next few weeks while you come to terms with it all. Jo How is mummy doing? It must have been such a special weekend for you both. I haven't checked but I guess you will be posting on "the otherside now". Are you getting used to the idea yet? Do you feel any different? I'll make sure I keep an eye on the otherside from now on to follow you through - but let us know the milestones, first scans, whether twins etc! Take care of yourselves. Anyway, Bye for now All Sx

Jo Locker · Post by **Jo Locker** » Mon Jul 14, 2003 8:51 am

Hi you three!! Thank you for your lovely words. I'm still in shock and don't really feel any different. Done another test just to make sure though and it's still true!! I was thinking about you over the weekend cos I remember the weekend I spent when we had our ICSI failure and it wasnt nice. I know it's a cliche but the only thing that helps is a bit of time. All I can say with regard to more treatment is that I never expected it to work for us, I honestly thought we'd have to look at making other plans for our lives. It's such early days and I'm scared of what could still happen but we're a step further on - you can get there. When it failed for us, the most annoying thing was the length of time you have to wait til you can start again - it seems like an eternity! It soon arrives, and the "normal" time you can have in between is very welcome. I have posted on the other side although part of me said it was too early, but thought I'd better show my face just to be sociable. Am at work this morning as normal, really busy, trying to have a more sensible week work-wise if possible - its so hard to concentrate. It was a special weekend - we are both still absolutely amazed at our good fortune. I want you all to experience this so much. Speak with you soon - lots of love - Jo.XXXXXXXXX

Lorraine · Post by **Lorraine** » Mon Jul 14, 2003 1:25 pm

Hi girls For once in my life I have no idea of what to say! Spent weekend with my DH and family - the time spent with them made the time pass quickly, kept me occupied and helped share the burden around! At home on my own today - have come crashing down again. I feel like such a huge failure. Failure with ttc, failure with the IVF, failure to cope with a 3rd -ve, and now a failure cos we are unlikely to try again. I feel so angry - mostly with myself – I am usually THE most composed person I know. I am practical and competent and generally the one who holds everyone else together – but I feel so useless now. After the other 2 cycles I would just hold out for another attempt – but I think this loss of hope and the realisation that I can’t cope with this IVF madness anymore means I feel I have so much more to grieve for. The worst thing is it leaves people with nothing to say – as all they want to do is say “try again” and “don’t give up”. I just want this heartache to stop. I hate even saying these things as this message board is about HOPE, optimism, and supporting one another to battle on – but I can’t even do that. I know I will begin to feel more in control in a few days – especially once his hideous period is over – and I more than anyone am aware of the blessings I have – I just want some peace in my heart – and I guess I am going to have to work to find it. Tell me where do the women go for whom IVF is not successful and then stop trying – no one ever seems to post on “that” thread – I know I can’t be the only one!!! I am ashamed of how I am ranting on – I know I am feeling sorry for myself - but I need some advice – and unless I ask for it – I aint gonna get it!!! Lorraine

Grace · Post by **Grace** » Mon Jul 14, 2003 1:47 pm

I have n't been posting much but I have been keeping up to date with all of you. Really, really sorry it has n't worked out for Caz, Sharon and you Lorraine but I am so glad for you Jo, I think we all needed a bit of good news last week, so glad you made it. Lorraine,I don't really know what to say to you except I am thinking of you so much at the moment. These days are going to be very hard. In many ways the letting go of treatmeant etc is like the whole bereavemeant process and will take time. Please don't think that this board is only for positive things. I think it is about all aspects of the whole process. Giving up on treatmeant and moving on is a very real part of this and unfortunately some of us will experience it. I can truly understand why you might think of yourself as a failure I have felt that many times myself throughout this process. You are definitely NOT a failure though. I have watched how supportive you have been to everyone and I can tell you, you are a kind, caring,witty and warm person and your posts on here have touched many of us. I know what you mean about the section on the board which deals with life after IVF. There were quite alot of posts on there but after the hackers nothing is appearing there. Believe me though there are lots of women who will entirely empathise with what you are going through. Please keep writing though we are all here for you. I can't give any advice because there is no right way of getting through the next few days, but you will get there because you are a stong and brave woman and it sounds as if you have a wonderful family and husband too. Keep in touch with much love and thoughts. Gracexx

Jo Locker · Post by **Jo Locker** » Mon Jul 14, 2003 3:10 pm

Lorraine I know that this is your darkest time. Me and my DH were going to have one more try after this and finish the whole IVF thing at the end of this year, which I was dreading. I know it's worked out for us so far but I really have seriously considered that we could not just keep going on for ever we simply couldnt afford it and I know how grim I felt about this thought and very depressed. I too have noticed that the "life after treatment" website does not get any postings these days. I don't know why - probably the whole thing is just so painful it's difficult to even write about. I hope you don't stop posting on this site - as Grace says, its not just for positive & hopeful things. We'd all be kidding ourselves if we didnt admit to our fears and very black times too throughout this treatment. I really don't know what else to say to you except to cling close to your family, especially DH. Remember that the drugs you've been taking are horrible and make you even more depressed. The one thing you know for sure about your future is that it involves your husband and his future involves you. I know that you will help each other to get through it and somehow come out the other side. There are lots of cruel things in this life that you can't even attempt to explain and what you're going through is certainly one of the most cruel and long-lasting sufferings. I dont know what the answer is - all I can do is thank you sincerely for your lovely words to me and help through the treatment. I wish with all my heart that it could have worked for us all and the celebration although very real, is tinged with sadness because of this. I'm praying for you and your DH Lorraine & send you lots of love. Jo.XX

caz · Post by **caz** » Mon Jul 14, 2003 3:37 pm

O lorraine You musnt feel like you have to be upbeat on here - the WHOLE point of this chat - is so that you can say whatever you want - things that you might not want to say to your dh or whatever. So intersting what you say about feeling a failure - I'm exactly the same - feel F**ing useless. Especially when the girl who I work with is 12 weeks pg ater her first IVF (with v poor embryos). GRRRRRRRRRRRR!!! I'm still all over the place - one minute think I'm fine and then in floods of tears the next minute. Am actually going through an angry stage at the moment and have been taking it out on the clinic , who say i cant have an appointment with our consultant until the 7th August WHICH REALLY PISSES ME OFF AFTER SPENDING £6ooo for NOTHING. Sorry for that! I KNOW thats not really the way to look at it. Anyway - I think you are SO SO brave to be thinking about moving on, although there arent many messages on the after IVF board there MUST be lots of people who do move on, you are SO not alone. And I bet with time they do move on and other things become important in their lives, and they not longer spend everyday thinking about IVF - which is the EXHAUSTING way we live our lives now. And whatever you decide PLEASE PLEASE keep in touch with us. There has to be more to life that injections and hormones. Tell us what you decide and THEN tell us please how you are getting on with whatever you decide!! Sorry to sound like a stalker! Lorraine have scanned the old chat and I think we started chatting in the middle of tmt and I dont think I ever asked exactly what your probelms were, ditto actually Jo and Sharon (Sharon I know you talked about Hydro - not sure what it actually is?). We are severe male factor as I guess you know, and theres no way a natural miracle will ever happen - so I guess we'll have 1 or 2 more shots at ICSI and then go for DI. Would any of you ever consider adoption of donor eggs/ sperm do you think?? jo - maybe this isnt relevant to you now - but I'm guessing its something ou've thought about before last friday!? Love to have a chat with me gal pals about THAT subject sometime. I think realistically DI is our best and only option - but I feel that I need someones OK for it before I do it - very worried that it might be a terrible can of worms - if you know what I mean. O I dunno - as I said , all over the place! Hey Jo - and PG symptoms yet?! Cazx

Jo Locker · Post by **Jo Locker** » Mon Jul 14, 2003 3:56 pm

Hi Caz, no, no pg symptoms which bothers me a bit but I'm sure its too early (4 wks) Am going to the supermarket tonight and am sure I wont be able to resist getting another test just to check. Have done 2 already but its so hard to believe them. With regard to our tmt, we had severe male factor with I think only 3% "normal-ish" sperm, even on a good day. Low numbers, poor morphology poor motility. I thought it was pretty hopeless to be honest but i just kept clinging to the thought that for ICSI they only need one. To me its a miracle - only a few years ago ICSI wasnt available so we're so grateful. Thinking about you and your DH - & lots of love, Jo. XXX

sharoninsomerset · Post by **sharoninsomerset** » Mon Jul 14, 2003 5:41 pm

Lorraine, I had to come home to post to you as after your post and Graces response, I had to rush to the loo in work in tears, I feel your pain so much it hurts. Firstly, I want to echo Grace by saying that you are a wonderful person who has touched many of us, you seem so warm and caring to others that we feel even more compelled to help you in your hours of need. As I have said in my emails your wise words have been extremely comforting and I only wish I could comfort you through this time. My feelings cannot compare to yours. I know that it doesn't matter how badly I feel I can still look to the future and know that I can try again in the not too distant future and I know that this is what helps most of the women here through such a hard time. Drawing the line under this treatment will be one of the bravest things you will ever have to do (and there any many that have to). Finding a life without it will be a very difficult path to go down. Like most of the women here have said, it is a grieving process that can only be gone through in your own way and only come out the other end when you are ready. You need to consider all you options over the next few months. Perhaps children still can be part of your lives, with adoption, fostering etc. Whether children are part of your lives in the future or not, there still IS A FUTURE and I hope that you will find that peace in your heart eventually. Please keep ranting on....we're not ready for you to let go yet!!! Much love Sharon xxx

Alison · Post by **Alison** » Mon Jul 14, 2003 7:51 pm

Dear Lorraine - Sorry to butt in on your thread but I read your post while I was at work today and my heart went out to you. Like you, I feel I have to be someone who is always the person who copes well and supports other people, especially DH but also I'm always telling friends that I'm OK and everything's fine, even though its not. Approaching this treatment (we have FET this week, our fifth treatment) I have been a complete wreck - tearful at home, grumpy at work, and just not feeling myself. DH and I are beginning to talk seriously about the, "what if it never works", and its just so hard. We've even talked about whether we'd be able to stay together - problems are on my side and I just feel so guilty about depriving DH of the chance to be a dad, which he'd love to do and just be so wonderful at. Now look what you've done - you've got me wallowing! Seriously though, if these boards are about anything they're about supporting each other through the hardest times, and being able to be honest and say what we really feel even when we're down, and when we feel we can't tell that to anyone else. But I've rambled enough. Really I just wanted to tell you that you're not alone, Much love Alison x

MARTEEN · Post by **MARTEEN** » Tue Jul 15, 2003 1:02 pm

HI JO I WAS EXCITED FOR ALL YOU GIRLS, I HAVE BEEN AWAY OVER THE WEEKEND AND JUST GOT BACK, REALLY GREAT NEWS FOR YOU JO, WHAT DID YOU DO? AND WHAT DIDN'T YOU DO? I WOULD BE REALLY INTERESTED TO KNOW! ALTHOUGH I KNOW IT IS A LOTTERY. I AM SO SORRY TO LORRAINE AND SHARON I SO KNOW WHAT YOU ARE GOING THROUGH, YOU ARE IN MY THOUGHTS, I AM GUTTED FOR YOU BOTH, I FEEL REALLY TEARFUL FOR YOU AND AS ALISON HAS SAID YOU ARE NOT ALONE. I AM DUE TO START TREATMENT AGAIN NEXT WEEK AND I AM REALLY SCARED. TAKE CARE GIRLS LOVE MARTEEN

Lorraine · Post by **Lorraine** » Tue Jul 15, 2003 1:15 pm

To Grace, Jo, Caz, Sharon, and Alison. Words fail me! (This is becoming a worrying trait!) I am truly overwhelmed by the kindness, understanding and generosity of spirit that you have shown to DH and myself. It has meant so much to me and really did give me a huge boost. I thank you all so much for the care and support you have given me - and I appreciate the encouragement to share my real thoughts and fears. I feel calmer today - and am beginning to make tentative plans for the immediate future. This lottery we play can be so very cruel - but the chance of a winning ticket brings all that we dream of - like everyone else - I genuinely do celebrate the successes - whilst knowing the pain of losing. I just know I couldn't have got through this cycle without my cycle buddies - I will always be grateful for our thread - and all your advice and comfort - Thank you. Jo, what a special time this is for you, just how many tests have you done now?! I am sure the worrying never stops – but try to enjoy this time as much as you can. You never did say if you have told your family yet. What a fantastic secret! Caz and Sharon – I am thinking of constantly – I know what a terrible blow this has been for you too. The sadness, the tears, the disbelief and the anger are just all part of the grieving process – and something we have to get through – but the beacon of light at the end of this tunnel – has to be hope, the hope that you will go on to try again and be successful. I know from previous attempts that you will feel uncertain at this time – and that the overwhelming fear in your hearts is that it will never work – but let Jo’s happy news be the inspiration for your next move. Caz – you asked about our history – I have severe polycystic ovary syndrome and DH moderate male factor – antibodies/poor motility/morphology. (What a great pair we make!) I have known since I was 16 that “something” was wrong so thought I was prepared for a life without children – but in truth it has got more difficult. I don’t have periods at all now and cos of the dual factor – have no chance of getting pregnant naturally. (I did not ovulate once in 6 months of Clomid – or when testing temperature/urine for signs of ovulation – in 12 months.) In some ways that has made it easier up until now – as I have never had to endure that – will it or won’t it be this month – that just seems like a torture to me – but now it pretty much rules out any “miracles”!!! Alison - I wish you all the very best for the FET this week, when is it? Thank you for sharing your thoughts with me – it made me feel more normal! Just having those conversations about “will it ever work” will strike a chord in everyone’s heart. But you must look forward with some optimism – I have said it before to the other girls – another failure is a real threat – but you can’t plan or prepare for it – you HAVE to put your heart on the line – go for it – and only if the time comes deal with any negative then. Let’s pray that you will never have to consider “letting go” (giving up – is too negative – and is now banned from my vocabulary!) Good luck my friend. Grace – do you know just how much you lived up to your name yesterday! Your words were so warm and caring – you were so soothing and comforting to say thank you seems to belittle what you did for me – but I do so appreciate your kindness. I have no idea “where you are at” but I hope it is a happy calm place! With a heart like yours – you deserve it! Wow for someone – who was lost for words – this sure is a long post – sorry girls! Special Blessings to you all. Lorraine xxxxxxxxx

Jo Locker · Post by **Jo Locker** » Tue Jul 15, 2003 1:23 pm

Hi Marteen, good to hear from you and glad you're looking forward to your upcoming treatment cycle. You were right I'm sure when you said that much of this is a lottery. The news takes a long time to sink in and I know it's so early that we're by no means out of the woods yet but it is just amazing. We feel so fortunate, and words can't explain how bad I feel for my June pals. I felt EXACTLY the same this time as the last all the way through the 2ww - period pains were as strong as last time which convinced me that it hadn't worked. Things I did the same - no alcohol, don't smoke, had my usual stressful time at work, ate normal, worried myself sick. Had showers not baths. Things I did different - took one baby aspirin daily. Lots of girls on the site had mentioned this so I thought I'd try it. Best to ask your own clinic I think (not that i did!). I wish you all the luck in the world and will keep everything crossed for you for a +++++ Keep us posted wont you? Lots of Love - Jo. XXXXX

Jo Locker · Post by **Jo Locker** » Tue Jul 15, 2003 1:50 pm

Lorraine - you have found such lovely words as usual when you must feel so low. Its easy to be gracious when things go well for us but all my June pals are also able to do this when life is not so kind which is a real lesson. I know you and your DH will find your future and I bet that somewhere along the line it may well involve children. I really feel that God would not let such a "natural" Mother as you go through life without using your abilities, and things have a funny way of working out. I'm not just saying this to try to make you feel better Lorraine I really believe it. As for me, yes I have done another test this morning. Daft I know but I cant help it cos I feel exactly the same. My DH and I are not going to tell anyone (except for our bosses who had to know about the treatment) until 12 weeks. Just daren't. Kept the treatment from them so I really need to get past the more dangerous period first. I'm glad you feel a bit calmer and wish you and your DH peace and happiness that increases as time goes on. Lots of Love - Jo. XXXXXXXXX

Grace · Post by **Grace** » Tue Jul 15, 2003 2:00 pm

Dear Lorraine So glad to hear from you today. You are so kind the way you think of everyone and remember all the little details. You are so much an inspiration to all of us women, I don't think you realise how much. You are right it does help so much to each other to "talk" too. I only found this site at the end of my last treatmeant cycle but it truly has made a huge difference to me emotionally. I really felt that I was the only one - did n't realise there was this whole sisterhood! You are very wise when you say that when you are going through treatmeant you have to be as positive as possible and then deal with the fall out if it happens. It is very difficult though is n't it? That is why I think it so important that we can share our feelings here it is impossible to feel totally positive about it at all times. Sometimes it makes me feel angry and sometimes just very sad. I don't know how long I will pursue treatmeant for. Although somewhere inside I do prepare myself for letting go - if it happens I know it will be difficult but then these past years of ttc have been so very hard too. One way or another it will be a new chapter, a new beginning. Anyway, what I really wanted to say was glad today is a bit better? Are you back at work yet? or are you taking some time off? Please, keep in touch as we are all thinking of you so much. Love Gracex

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