The Over 40 Crowd

[lara]

I'm very sorry to hear that, Lisa, and I don't blame you for being angry and upset and without sleep, either. You must feel very hurt.
It takes ages to go through divorce, and you'll have time to think it through as it proceeds, so even if what you need to do right now is react and get attorneys maybe that's what feels right, where you want your boundary to be.
I'm afraid to say it's not the first time I've come across this. Of course it isn't! It's extremely common, just not talked about widely for obvious reasons.
My friend came downstairs to put her younger son's video on in the morning and up came a porn movie, and there was a bottle of baby oil on top of the telly! (We now call her DH baby-oil dave...)
Another friend, I knew that her DP was seeing a paid sex worker but every time I tried to bring the subject up with her she was so naive and so innocent and so completely freaked out that I backed off. I've always blamed myself for not coming out and spelling out the truth, but anyway they split up because he went off with another woman, and she threw him out. They had a child together, who's got a serious illness. How hard is life sometimes?
My DP's a therapist and counsellor so of course all these people suggesting counselling are right up my street - I agree - but I think he should apologise to you, seek counselling on his own, come clean about absolutely everything that's going on and show tangible evidence that he's dealing with his sex addiction (it's like gambling, drink or anything else). Some of it may be an escape from and a reaction to the stresses and strains of IVF and infertility - that's absolutely no excuse, but it's an explanation, possibly.
I just know that no one out there is whiter than white, we're all messed up in some way. If someone betrays you then maybe you have to draw a line and say, that's not acceptable, good bye. But if they want to sort themselves out and come clean with you, maybe you want to consider giving them a time limit within which they've got to make progress.
Sorry if I've irritated you blah blah blah, the point is, I'm sorry for your shock and disappointment.
lol Lara
ps Debra, hugs to you x

[teachertam]

Good morning ladies:

Lisa: I hope you got some sleep and feel better. It will be much easier to make decisions if you have a clear head.

Gail: Fingers crossed for your embies.

Robyn: How is your cycle coming along?

I just left my doctor's office. I had 5 mature follies and 5 more that are close and will probably be mature when we do transfer. That would give me 10 mature follies . I have to wait for the estrodial level and most likely will do ET on Friday morning. This is a better scenario than last time, so my fingers are crossed.

Take care all,
Tammy

[Jo1962]

Hi ladies and hello

It's Jo here, after a few weeks not posting, feeling quite out of sorts after the first -ve tbh. I see lots has been going on here while I've been away.

Well done Tammy on such a bumper crop of follies - how many did you get last time?

Gail, fingers crossed for you during your 2ww.

Debra ... what can I say, except I can guess how you must be feeling, as went through the same thing myself a year ago - April 1st to be precise (oh how we laughed).

I am to start flare protocol again in around 2 weeks, as soon as AF starts... but not living in huge hope. This will be our last attempt as literally no more money in the pot.

Lisa - how awful you must be feeling. It's not the porn that worries me, Both DH and myself enjoy it together, and I know that when I'm not in the mood (which I haven't been much lately) he uses it on his own. That's fine with me. But this is different, and pretty much being unfaithful. I wonder if he sees it that way though? I wonder if it is pattern behaviour, or a cry for attention? DHs have a hard time during what we are putting ourselves through, and it's far far far from sexy for them. And sometimes we become far from sexy too... And they can feel really sidelined and neglected. I'd strongly suggest you seek relationship counselling - DH and I had a stint with Relate a few years back and they were fantastic. You might even come out of this stronger and closer than before. It can happen. Whatever you decide to do... good luck!

Well...

We're all still alive. Spring is nearly here. There's many many worse things that could happen to us (that's what DH keeps telling me, anyhow!)

Keep on keeping on, ladies. What else can we do?

Jo x

New 40+ Mommies:
Alette (own eggs). Son Nov 05
Jude - twins (DE) 05
Joy - twins (DE) 05
CarolineP - Daughter Nov 05
Squew - twins 05

Ladies in waiting:
Debbieed - own eggs, BFP August 05. EDD - April 06?
BigJ (Jules) - BFP 9/12/05 - EDD 15/08/06 praying hard
DPerry (Donna). DE. BFP July 05
Debra - BFP 20 Feb. No heartbeat, big hugs, second scan Friday 17th March
Lara - BFP, history of m/c, hoping all OK

On meds:
Tammy- stimming, 1st scan Monday 13th March
Gail - ET Tuesday 14th March

Preparing:
Kat - deciding next step
Amfy - FET March/April
Bev- Off to Kiev 30th March for tmt DE
Jen - Taking time out then, next IVF in May...
Robyn - 2nd IVF cycle in March
Anna - Waiting for AF to start short protocol. Scan Wed 15th March
Lisa - FET May 2nd
Jo - 2nd IVF cycle esd 28 March.

Recent cyclers:
Hugs to Caroline, Sandra, Randa, Caz and Jo

[BevT]

Tammy, just a quick drop in to say congrats on your bumper crop. Wow, 10, that's got to be close to a record for one of us more mature gals. Fingers crossed that they all make it big enough for EC, and each follicle has one little beauty inside.

Debra, not sure if I will be on again before Friday (out all day tomorrow) so I will wish you luck for your scan, you will be in my thoughts.

Lisa, sending you hugs.

Anna, how did the scan go today?

Gail, good luck with your 2 ww - we'll be rooting for you!

Jules, have you had your fortnightly scan? Hope all's well in the bump department.

Me, I'm just spending a bit of time tying up loose ends for our trip, end of this month, just booked c/parking at Gatwick, trying to find out how best to get from the Airport in Kiev to our accommodation, etc etc, thinking about what clothes I've got which will be warm enough for the cold - although I'm hoping that the temp may go up a few degrees before we get there. DH and I are off to a Trustees Dinner at school this evening, so I'm shortly going to get in the bath, have a long soak, try on ALL my outfits to see what to wear, put a bit of slap on, do my hair, find my polite conversational head (they always put you at different ends of the table from your DH at these things!) and leave the house at 6.30pm with DH's "dinner" suit in tow. Really, all I want to do is light the fire, pick up a good book, close the curtains and ........

Oh, BTW, for all you girls out there in the UK, ITV at 9pm tonight is a programme on "older parents" - think it's going to cover the pros and cons, and also speak to children about their perspective on having older parents. Really wanted to watch it, but am going to have to tape it instead.

Hope to catch up later in the week,

LOL Bev xxx

[teachertam]

Ladies:

Thanks for the support! DH and I are excited

I will be having EC on Friday at 12:00pm. I hope all 10 follies are mature and all have eggs. I am ready, as my ovaries are so tender and enlarged.

Jo: Last time I had 6 mature follies, but only 3 eggs retrieved. For some reason, three of the those eggs would not release from their follicle.

Regards,
Tammy

[randa2006]

Haven't been on for several days and am shocked at what I'm reading.

Dearest Debra, I just can't believe this. I was sure you were home free on this one. And if I remember correctly, you have guests in town as you are dealing with this... how awful. I just keep sitting here shaking my head, I don't even know what to say to you. Along with the rest, I'll pray for a miracle on Friday.

Lisa, you are in reaction mode - and I don't blame you. Please try to calm down and let some time pass before making any firm decisions. Is he wrong to do this? Yes. You have every right to be mad as hell and hurt beyond belief. I would like to point out one thing though... if he was the typical cheating spouse, he wouldn't be doing it this way. He would be having real sex with other women, yet he has chosen this instead. Why? Maybe because he isn't the type to really cheat, he really does love you and he has let a porn addiction get the best of him. Like others have said, this is an addiction like drugs or alcohol. I bet he wants to NOT be the guy who has this uncontrollable urge. If he's willing to get help, maybe you should consider that? Also, if your trouble getting pregnant is "his" issue (sperm) as you indicated, maybe he feels less of a man because of that and this is somehow related to his sense of loss about that. ??? Not an expert, just making some outsider observations. I've been through divorce and it is a living hell. Just try to be sure the marriage really has no hope before you go there. And if that is the case, I'm living proof you can get through it and find happiness with another man (or even on your own). So sorry, Lisa. This is really shitty for you to go through.

Kat and Caroline - I read your posts about giving up and I cried. My heart goes out to you. I don't think I had a clue what you are going through. Thanks for sharing your undeserved pain. I hope getting it out like that somehow helps a little. There has got to be support (counseling, groups, books, etc.) for women in this situation and maybe you'll find some insight into how to move on with your life and feel whole.

Gail, congratulations on your embies and good luck with ET.

Lara, fingers crossed that your BFP stays that way!!! How are you?

Tammy, congratulations on a wonderful crop of follies! 10 mature ones is FANTASTIC for us older gals! You give us all hope.

Hello to Amfy, Bev, Jen, Robyn, Anna, BigJ, Caz and Jo!
I'm watching all of you also and it feels good to know I am not alone in this overwhelmingly difficult endeavor we have all undertaken.

Thanks to you all for being here any time I've needed you.

Our doc said proceed either way we want. Fresh or frozen. We are going ahead with another fresh. This will be my 5th time to stimulate and my 2nd time to (hopefully) transfer. We will start stim drugs in April.

Dh and I had a long talk and he has made me feel better about taking more drugs. He reminded me that he read about 140 pages of research on all of this before we started and that is why he has a much smaller fear of the effect of the drugs than I do. He is going to share the information with me so that I feel his same sense of safety. I have been battling a constant fear of getting ovarian cancer from all of this. I read an article in Oprah Magazine 2 years ago that scared me to death, and I've just not been able to shake it. He also reassured me that he would never be in favor of anything that has a measureable risk to my health - not even 5%. That helped a lot. He has a bio-chemical degree from Harvard and was accepted into the medical school there at one time, but ended up in software instead of becoming a doctor. So he is more knowledgeable about these things than the average husband, and I just need to trust him (and the research).

Are any of you afraid? Do you know anything about the dangers of repeated rounds of these drugs? My naturopath says they haven't been used for enough years to know for sure if they harm us down the road.

Sorry for the long post. Had a lot to get out.

I'll do new blood work in 2 weeks. Guess we'll see if my fsh has gone any higher than 15 since a year ago.

Love and hugs to my Fellow IVF Warriors.
Randa

[DebraP]

Lara, somehow in all my spinning around I missed that you got your BFP. I totally understand your caution, I guess no one on this thread is ever going to take anything at face value and be happy from day one. I wish you luck.

Tammy, 10 is great. Even assuming the normal drop-off rate you should get more than enough....fingers crossed and here's hoping Friday is a good one.

Gail, best of luck to you too.

Randa, thank you so much for the kind words. DF and I are completely numb. Nothing good is expected of Friday, we're just waiting to hear how to best deal with a D&C next week. My parents left today, it made for a crappy few days. Not helped by my brother, innocently, sending their 20-week scan photos to my email for my mum to see. With horrible irony, their scan was Monday too. I hadn't told him we were pg yet. Ah well, crap happens again, again and again but once in a while, one of us slips through to the other side... I wish you all the luck in the world with your next tmt.

Hi to everyone. Thank God we're all here for each other.
Debra.

[AMck]

Hi ladies,
My heart goes out to you Lisa .The messages from the ladies here are much better than anything I could write. I echo their words in that you are in shock and need time to think things through. I hope there are brighter times ahead for you. xx

Debra, thinking of you with your scan on Friday. x

Gail , when your dr said that this is the last try with your eggs, did he ask your view on this? It seems that he made a decision for you. Surely it is up to you and dh on what you do next? PMA and babydust to you on your 2ww.

Tammy, wow a bumper crop. Well done you! Good luck for Friday. x

Hi Bev, my scan was Okish.. Revealed that the cyst that had bled at the weekend has diminished from 35mm to 24mm. Just need it to flush away with Af and I can start short protocol. AF knocking today. Scan on Friday. Fingers crossed.

Hi to Caroline , Randa, Lara and Jo. Hope you are OK.

New 40+ Mommies:
Alette (own eggs). Son Nov 05
Jude - twins (DE) 05
Joy - twins (DE) 05
CarolineP - Daughter Nov 05
Squew - twins 05

Ladies in waiting:
Debbieed - own eggs, BFP August 05. EDD - April 06?
BigJ (Jules) - BFP 9/12/05 - EDD 15/08/06 praying hard
DPerry (Donna). DE. BFP July 05
Debra - BFP 20 Feb. No heartbeat, big hugs, second scan Friday 17th March
Lara - BFP, history of m/c, hoping all OK

On meds:
Tammy- bumper crop of follies, ET Friday 17th March
Gail - ET Tuesday 14th March

Preparing:
Kat - deciding next step
Amfy - FET March/April
Bev- Off to Kiev 30th March for tmt DE
Jen - Taking time out then, next IVF in May...
Robyn - 2nd IVF cycle in March
Anna - Waiting to start short protocol. Scan Fri 17th Mar
Lisa - FET May 2nd
Jo - 2nd IVF cycle esd 28 March.

PMA to all here
Bye for now
Anna x

[gailbunny]

Hi All

I only just logged in and have missed many posts.

Thank you all for your positive thoughts. I am trying to forget the 2ww rollercoaster as last time I was evil to live with. Although DP has taken to talking to tum and asking the embies whether they are enjoying themselves and whether they are warm & cosy.

Lisa I feel for you, my DP is 29 and gave me a quite a shock. Not at all anywhere near yours. You certainly shouldnt blame yourself and the advice which has been posted is far better than anything I could think. My thoughts are with you and hope there comes glimmer of light soon.

Tam well done. Your follies are in my prayers that they are great little fighters. My thoughts will be with you at 12 on Friday.

Lara Hope that BFP stays big and strong.

Debra Big hugs

Bev not long now to your trip. Hope the packing goes well and the trip is more than sucessful

Robyn how is the protocol going. Have your dates worked to your best advantage.

Anna have you started your meds if so how are you getting along

Jo Hope all goes well with Short Protocol

Caz & Randa hope all goes well for April

Sorry if I have left anyone out my memory isnt that good. (Any escuse!)
PMA to all.

Gail

[robyn]

Hi

Gail, if you can really forget about the 2ww PLEASE tell me how you do it!
I remeber when i went through it i drove myself crazy and DH. Lots of PMA to you..

Lisa, Sorry to hear your shocking news.

Debra sorry for your sad news.

Tammy let's hope they retrieve many follies! PMA

Anna and Jo
which meds will you be taking or are you already taking?

I am on merional and puregon. They will start me on orgalutron. I haven't heard of steroids before reading the posts here but it seems like something i may ask about since i am a poor responder. I just hope they see some follies growing. I am a bit nervous but will hopefully be put at ease Fri.

Tomorrow morning DH and I have an appt with a child educational assessor/phycologist. We are concerened about DD agressive and angry behavior. It might just be normal behavior but want to explore our options. Most of all DH and I don't agree on our discipline methods and that can't be helping matters. Most of all we need to be consistant.

Caz, You have used steriods in the past? did you have a better result as far as producing eggs?

Also if anyone knows does weight make a difference on any aspect of tx.
I also had thyroitoxicosis and am on meds for it. (hyperactive thyroid)

GL to everyone and lots of PMA!!!

Robyn

[Jo1962]

Meds: gonal f (maximum dose!) and cetrotide, then pregnyl to mature eggs and two shot of pregnyl after ET. AF expected a week today... feel exhausted already.

DH has been very flaky since the -ve. All he will say is that he is feeling very run down and please can I be considerate towards him...

We had a friend over last night and I heard DH tell him that he expects he is feeling so run down because of a reaction to the stress of the last IVF cycle. But when I tried to talk to him about it this morning, he flatly denied ever saying anything of the sort ... I tried to I tell him how much I need his support and feel that I can't go through another cycle without him strongly by my side, but we didn't get very far.

And he has gone off to work with us being on bad terms today...

Sitting here today working from home, as I often do, doing corporate research for the legal firm I work for... and feeling very "oh who gives a f***" about it

[Jo1962]

Robyn - Meds: gonal f (maximum dose!) and cetrotide, then pregnyl to mature eggs and two shot of pregnyl after ET. AF expected a week today... feel exhausted already.

DH has been very flaky since the -ve. All he will say is that he is feeling very run down and please can I be considerate towards him...

We had a friend over last night and I heard DH tell him that he expects he is feeling so run down because of a reaction to the stress of the last IVF cycle. But when I tried to talk to him about it this morning, he flatly denied ever saying anything of the sort ... I tried to I tell him how much I need his support and feel that I can't go through another cycle without him strongly by my side, but we didn't get very far.

And he has gone off to work with us being on bad terms today...

Sitting here today working from home, as I often do, doing corporate research for the legal firm I work for... and feeling very "oh who gives a f***" about it

[taylorjools]

hello ladies

Lisa - I just wanted to share with you that in 1998/9 when we lived in Berlin, where I had moved to follow dh and his career thus giving up my own, he started to drink heavily. I realised after becoming more and more lonely as he came home from work blotto and just carried on (wine/fizz not hard stuff so it was very insidious, it crept up on me/us) that he had become a social alcoholic (he was perfectly capable of going days without, then would start again). We had always been very sociable, and drunk quite a lot, but this got scary. I tried to talk to him about it, had no effect. His kids didn't want to visit us anymore as he was "always asleep" (I later found out the -ex has a drink problem, still has actually). In the end I left Berlin and moved back to the UK on the basis that I had contract in the UK. I just took a bedsit, didn't disolve the relationship, but basically left him. Finally he started writing to me and faxing me long letters and after we had met up, I gave him the condition that he could join me in the UK and we would try again if he went to counselling and went dry cold-turkey. He took about 3 months to get it togther, but to get to the point we have been in a "new honest" relationship since 2000 (the Millenium was the day he came back), and have been wonderfully happy since then, like 2 different relationships. This was one of the reasons we didnt start ttc until 2000.

I don't know if that story helps you Lisa, but if you love your dh and are just hurt and disappointmed as I was, there is hope that things can be worked out. If not, then you will always know you tried your best (both of you). Sometimes they need the shock of being alone to realise how far they have damaged things.

biggest hugs

Jules

[Jo1962]

I also have an attack of thrush and a big spot on my nose... so HB and I are really competing on the rundown stakes!

I remember once foolishly thinking that when you were grown up, you didn't get spots any more...

[gailbunny]

Robyn

Have plenty of things going on to take mind of 2ww. I have DS weekly reports to attend as his class teacher has him down as problem child. However, reading between the lines he is a) bored in the classes that he becomes a problem and b) he is being verbally bullied.

We had appointment with a private school this morning as we feel this may be what he needs, a) a tighter reign in that there are far smaller classes and b) the teachers have more time to distract him from boredom.

He isnt the brightest in the pack but really needs to be kept occupied. Dp takes hom into the garage having him strip down computers and rebuild new ones. When he had his MG car he had him stripping down car parts etc. Me I get him cooking and helping with odd jobs. The only time he is trouble is when he doesnt know what to do with himself.

If he could he would be perminantly on the computer or Xbox or PSP etc but that time is limited.

Then at weekend we have his footie and are due to go to Wales to visit family. Then next week DS has his eye test at the hospital to see if he needs glasses and a number of other meetings with schools so have pretty much tried to forget the onset of good or bad news.

Hope all goes well for you with DD and scan. Its not easy juggling family & IVF. I do think that you could be right that not having a common ground on disipline could be a problem because children are excellent at playing one off against another. In fact I think they are born with a degree in it.

Good Luck
Gail