Just had my NKC biopsy

[Natalie Anne]

Just thought i'd share this with you as i know a few people have had NKC (Natural Killer Cell) blood tests but not biopsies.

A blood test shows results for your entire immune system so if you had a cold for example and your general immune system was temporarily lowered, your results could show low levels but the biopsy takes cells directly from the womb for testing.

It's part of a study taking place at Liverpool Women's Hospital, trying to show that steroids aid implantation and prevent miscarriage in women with more than 5% NKCs in the uterus. My consultant referred me as he doesn't believe that a blood test will show a true result.

i went yesterday (you go on the Monday closest to your day 21) and had an internal scan follwed by the biopsy which was very painful actually. i get the results in 3 weeks. if my levels are above 5% they will put me on the steroid Prednisole, starting from embryo transfer day. in some cases they are using a placebo but i was told that if i need it, i will definitely get the steroids as they feel that OHSS, 4 failures and a miscarriage is enough to go thrpugh without wasting a cycle on a placebo.

because i have had so many failures, it's giving me a bit of hope that maybe this is why and the steroids may just be the answer.

if anyone else has had this i'd be interested in your experiences.

Natalie

[dancola]

Natalie, I can relate to this. My history is also pretty similar to yours - male factor, first ICSI +ve then a week 5 m/c, followed by 2 failed fresh cycles. After the 2nd failed fresh I was tested +ve for NKC and was then put on the Prednisolene steroids, though at my clinic you start them on the day of egg collection, not transfer. I wish I could tell you I then got a BFP, but sadly another -ve. However, I'll try again and hope for the best. My clinic has had other women on this steroid who have gone on to have a baby, so it does work.

Another clinic (the ARGC) goes further than mere steroid tablets and puts their patients on a drip (IVIG) - Little P had this treatment and her baby is due very soon!

Good luck with the programme - keeping fingers crossed for you.

Nicola

[sue e]

Natalie,

Hoping the test brings the answers you need,

good luck

love

sue e xx

[Natalie Anne]

thanks for your replies.

i got the results back and she said that it's totally normal and that in fact i have a "fantastic" endometrium. my embies were all grade 1 so they still can't find anything wrong with me at all.

i'm having my next ICSI attempt very soon and will start downreg in 3 weeks. Fingers crossed for 6th time lucky!!

[sue e]

Thanks for letting us know how you got on and im so sorry they didn't find the 'cause', wishing you all the best with your next attempt. Did you change hospitals? If so what one are you at now? I'm under LWH.

good luck

love

sue e xx

[taylorjools]

Hi Nathalie Anne

congrats on the super endo!!!

I had blood tests not a biopsy, and NKC were OK but they identified that I have Hashimotos thyroiditis which is autoimmune thyroiditis, this has been linked to m/c and implantation failure (via Dr Beer's website I was able to convince the doc to treat me although I was subclinical, ie had still normal thyroid function)..

I took methyl prednisolone (4mg) and baby aspirin (100mg) and vitE (100mg) this time, and got a strong BFP that so far seems to like it where it is.

I say this as although NKC are ruled out, there are a lot of other immune issues that can cause m/c and impmnatation failure that are detected by blood test. PM me if you want more info, or check out the yahoo news group immunologysupport

good luck

hugs

bigJ

[Natalie Anne]

thanks for your replies, yes i'm now at LWH which seems to run more efficiently than my last clinic.

[SASA]

taylorjools, what kind of immune tests did you performed?
I had severe abdomenal pain for 3 days for ET and suspect immune problem. I am in my 2ww. If it does not work out , I want to ask my doc to perform those immune tests when I see him on the test day.
Thank you in advance.

[gbnut]

i am at ARGC in london and had the test two weeks ago. It is a lot of blood that they take from you. I was told today at my scan that it has highlighted problems and that i will go on steriods as well as a drip to try to rectify the problem and give my embrios a better change of implantation. At this clinic they monitor you for the first month so not starting my next ivf until beginning of July.

[CarolynB]

Natalie - Good to hear and for sharing what you have been up to. I miss you on April-May thread but have increasingly myself understood why you wanted to move on. It is good to hear that you are at a new clinic which you seem more satisfied with. However, really frustrating that despite all the tests that nothing specific was found. Next time is the one for you. Have fingers and toes all crossed for you.

I have an auto immunue disorder - sarcoidosis. All my notes plus a letter from my GP set this out but I have not been asked any questions around it at all. It is quite rare. It was diagnosed on Harley Street in 2000 after multiple mis-diagnosis. Now starting to wonder whether this could have any bearing on ivf proceedings for me????

Gbnut - I am very keen to hear all about ARGC. My dh and I have of course looked at their stats in awe. We know that it is v expensive and there is v intensive monitoring across the entire cycle. I am at Hammersmith but not sure that I would be able to give up without having a final shot at ARGC. We are not ready to move yet but will certainly think about it over the coming months. I have heard fantastic things about the clinic and also stories where people do not like it at all (too busy, very expensive, etc etc). Really keen to hear what you think??

BogJ - many congrats on your BFP - way to go!!!

Good luck for everyone.
Love Carolyn xxx

[Natalie Anne]

Hi Carolyn

if you look back at the dates i actually created this thread before my last attempt and that's when we moved clinics. i'm afraid nothing at all has happened since my -ive and i left the April/May buddies thread. i haven't even had my review appointment yet.

i had another set back last week when i discovered an email between my bosses about how i'd "managed" to get signed off for the last attempt and how they thought it was wrong becuase i'd "chosen" to have ivf and think of all the money i was costing the country by receiving Statutory Sick Pay. i was so angry i nearly left there and then but i need the money and i can't get a new job and then announce that i want time off almost immediately.

got to just hope i get a BFP on my 7th go and can leave this stupid job and concentrate on being a mum.

Hope you are all ok on the A/M buddies and sorry again for leaving you all.

N
x

[CarolynB]

Natalie

Now I have looked at the dates I can see.

Sorry - was being thick and insensitive.

I am so sorry to hear what has been going on at your work. I know that these things are hard but have you thought of logging a complaint with HR - in confidence. I know that these situations are really hard but people just should not be allowed to do these things, let alone put it in writing. It is disgusting. Anyway - you'll be able to stick 2 fingers up at them when you leave to have your baby.

Do you have a date for your review session? I will be keeping my eyes open to see how you do. Are you on a thread at all?

Take good care. Sorry that I did not read better before posting.
Love Carolyn xxx

[gbnut]

Carolyn

I have just moved to them after a recommendation from another couple who had been trying for years and have had 2 goes at IVF. They moved and has a BFP fist and second time round. There stats were very good too.

So far they have been very attentive. But it will end up being very costly. the actual ivf is not too bad but it is the extras that mount up. I had to have the amune testing and that cost £960. BUt from this it has highlighted that i have a problem mand will have to take steriods and intrevenious stuff to coat my killer cells. This all costs money but if i get a positive at the end it would be worth it. If i had stayed with Barts and they dont test my immune system i would continue to have a BFN until I got the immune system probs sorted.

It can be busy and a bit impersonal in the waiting room but all the staff are very helpful and answer all your questions. I am not looking forwars to the daily blood tests it is a bit of a treck for me to get to the clinic but it will be good to be well monitored.

if you have anymore questions pleases ask.

Susan xx

[Natalie Anne]

Carolyn - i wasn't having a go at you! just didn't want to confuse you!

i'm not on any threads at the moment cos just stuck in limbo. got my review appt. on Monday and will be requesting a laparoscopy.

have sought legal advice about the situation at work (no HR dept - we're too small) and have basically set things up so if they do anything else i can get them for sexual discrimination.

once things are back on track for me, i'll come back and see how everyone is but if we have a 7th go i don't think i can cope with another buddy group again - i just fall to pieces when i fail and am not there to give others support when they need me. i feel terrible about it but if it hinders my recovery then i suppose i'm doing the right thing by leaving.

hope you are ok and excited about your next go.

Natalie
x

[CarolynB]

Susan

Thanks for the info on ARGC. It stacks with what I have heard elsewhere. Very professional, very successful but really expensive and lots of people there. Really hope that moving there will do the trick for you. Fingers crossed. Let us know how you get on. I am certainly not ruling out moving there from Hammersmith.

Love Carolyn
----------------------------------------------

Natalie

I know that you would not be having a go at me. Not your style at all. Understand that you cannot go through another buddy group. I have stuck with the April-May thread as most of the people still there are people who like me failed there and so at least they know how hard it can be. Good Luck for your review appointment next Monday. I had a lap done yesterday. He said the good news is that they found no other issues - other than the blocked tubes which they knew about already. Need to go to see him next Wednesday with dh to discuss whether he operates to try to cut out the mess in my tubes and then trys to re-join them or whether we try another cycle of ivf. Choices - none of which are great but have to get on with it.

Good on you for seeking legal advice. I cannot believe what some companies try to get away with. You have so much stress to deal with you would think that they might be a little more understanding.

You're very welcome back on April-May thread anytime that you think that it might help you at all.

Take good care. Thinking of you & hoping that Monday is constructive & helpful for you.
Love Carolyn xxxxxx