Natural Killer Cells

Karen W · Post by **Karen W** » Tue Sep 30, 2003 6:02 pm

Hi All, If you have been following my postings you will know that I have now had 5 failed cycles. I am off for immunological tests at St Mary's hospital in London. I am not entirely sure what they are all for, the literature I have had from them is dealing with recurrent miscarriage so isn't really appropriate to me. I am wondering if some of the test are to do with the natural killer cells I have been reading about. Has anyone else had tests at St Mary's and can anyone give me any more info about these NK cells? I have read a bit about if on Dr Beers website but was wondering what the price of drugs are if I have these cells. I am also wondering what the UK's attitude is towards this as from some of the post it seems that UK consultants don't necessarily agree with this. I know from my experience with PCOS and metformin that the UK is some way behind the US and I was wondering what other peoples experience have been with this. I can't decide whether I want a positive test or not. On the one hand I have quite enough to deal with thank you very much. On the other if there is a reason why my blastos aren't implanting, and there is something that can be done about it, bring on the drugs!! Thank you for listening to my ramblings. Karen

luce · Post by **luce** » Tue Sep 30, 2003 6:19 pm

Hi Karen Sorry to hear about your 5 failed cycles. I have had 2 failed cycles and had Dr Beer's immunological tests via ARGC only a month or so ago. There are many different tests out there both here and in the US and some of them are variations on the same theme, but yes, I would imagine that St Marys will test you for NK cells. If you test positive there are various drugs that are used to treat the problems: IVIg, Remicade, Enbrel and Humira. None of these drugs is cheap - IVIg is £1200 per infusion. The others are also expensive, but I'm not sure of the details. You are right, the UK is behind the US on this subject - there are a few pioneering clinics here in the UK who believe that immunology plays a big part in implantation, but the RCOG recently put out a warning that it is all unproven. I was very apprehensive about the tests and their results and was mostly worried about the side effects of the drugs. However, I tested negative to all the tests so am relieved I don't have hard decisions to make. But like you said, it's a double edged sword in that we still don't have a reason why our embies aren't implanting! Not sure I've helped you at all but just wanted you to know that you're not alone in this and any thoughts you have had will definitely have been had by one of us who have had these tests. If you want to find others who have been through it too, you will find an Immune Issues thread on the www.ivfconnections.com bulletin boards under ivf and ivf by cause. Good luck with it all! Luce

Grace · Post by **Grace** » Tue Sep 30, 2003 6:34 pm

Hi Karen As you probably know I am in a similar situation to yourself. When we had our last consultation doctor recommended we have my NK cells tested. I have n't had blastocysts transferred but I have had grade 1 embryos every time without a glimmer of luck. I am at the Lister and sure enough the NK test came back showing the cells were active and elevated but not much above normal. They have told me that this is associated with recurrent miscarriage and recurrent failed IVF cycles. (I imagine you will be tested for these) On this next cycle I have to take steroids from the day before embryo transfer. I did n't have a whole batch of tests done. I know some women at ARCG seem to have alot more tests. I also know a lttle of Dr Beer's work although there does seems to be alot of contoversy about the whole area at the moment. The drug I am going to take is Prednisolone. I believe it is a standard steroid and quite cheap. I have had to have some blood tests done with my GP to show that my general health is okay before I start. I think the more invasive drugs for this problem can be pretty expensive and some of the tests too. The one we did was only £90. To be honest I have very mixed feeling about all of it. I hate having to take even more drugs but at the same time if it works who cares. I did feel quite upset that there seems yet another problem. On the other hand perhaps it is the reason why it has n't worked, I am not convinced though. I really find the whole area a bit of a mine field as you say it seems to be a relatively new area of research. There still seems to be a lot of mystery surrounding the whole implantation process. There is another website called IVF Connections - they have a whole area on there devolted to immune issues. It would certainly be worth your while taking a look at that. Alot of the women on there are patients of Dr Beer's Did your clinic recommend you go to St Mary's? I have heard good things about the unit. I know they have helped many people with recurrent miscarraiages. Let me know how you get on when you go for the tests. Hope you are doing okay. Take care. Gracex

Di · Post by Di » Wed Oct 01, 2003 1:12 pm

Hi Karen, As you know I've just found out I'm pregnant after 9th tmt. This time after a number of tests - one of which showed natuarl killer cells - so I had IVig a week prior to ec and then a 2nd lot last week after +ve result. The IVIg is £1,200 but if you have a sympathetic GP you could ask for a prescription as the treatment is for your immune system! Good luck and look forward to hearing how you get on! Di