Message for Caz

becky · Post by **becky** » Thu Aug 07, 2003 5:16 pm

Hi Caz Just wanted to say how pleased I am that you mentioned about being offered the same sounding donor..kind of freaked me out and brought me out of the fluffy white clouds..rather this side than the other to get my head around it.. Must say I was in a little bubble thinking that the donor would just supply me..another angle to look at I think..do you agree? I really mustn't get too personal about it but if you knew someone else on the site that took the same sample..it would be a half brother/sister?? biologically anyway certainly not family wise ..if you get me? I must ask where you were offered this donor..? Did it make you think too?? I mean there are millions of tall dark architects..but even so it could be the same one and that is bizzare although so obvious. Sorry to waffle on but another angle has been discovered and needs to filed away and sorted in my mind before we take another step foreward. love Becky B

caz1 · Post by **caz1** » Fri Aug 08, 2003 7:16 am

No - i do completely understand Becky - and I of course thought SHIT!! when I saw your thread. Just SO weird isnt it. I bet its the same one. There was no other info about him and I was told that he was quite an old donor , in that he'd been with them a while - ie before they got more info, like hobbies etc etc frankly tho , he was the best of the few options we were given. In the end we went for all dh sperm - and altho it didnt work am pleased we did as it gave us the best chance of getting and embie with his genes. Get me? However next time we have to seriously consider a donor. I am quite sorted with in theoretically, and if someone else was thinking of doing it, I would without any hesistation say - go for it. However I just dont know, when it comes to it if I could deal with it and If my dh could deal with it. Altho he said last night that if I already had a child with anyother guy when he married me , he would have taken the child in and seen it completely as his own. I guess thats true. Errrr - dunno - so so hard. Like you this is the first time I have thought about other people using the same donor. SPOOKY. Imagine if we both used the same donor , and they change the laws and both our children could find him one day - I'm sorry, but dunno if I could deal with that. On the other hand....thats v unlikely to happen, and is there any point about worrying about what might or might not happen in 20 years time. One thing I think u learn from this process is not to bother analysing the future as you have NO control over it. The real things I worry about are 1. will i always look at the child and think the donor 2. Will my dh be ok with it all....really 3. will I tell anyone 4. will I tell the child (apparently 75% of people dont) 5. What will I do if in 20 years time the child wants to find their genetic father Sometimes I just think, nope I'm sorry this is all too weird - its just not for me. This doesnt HAPPEN to people like me. And then I realise that of course it does , and people have been having children for hundreds of years that arent the child of their husband and NO harm has ever come of it...they just get on with their lives and never tell anyone - noone is any worse off for not knowing. Its , I guess a case of whether you can dael with keeping the secret God- WHAT A RANT!!! o- by the way - to answer you Q - am at teh London Fertility Clinic - they , I think, use a variety of sperm banks across the country Keep telling me what you're think Becky - I need to hear your wise words! cazxx

caz1 · Post by **caz1** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 4:19 pm

Becky - hope youa re well - just thought I would bring this to the top again - as would love to share thoughts. Take care Cazx

becky · Post by **becky** » Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:40 am

So sorry Caz..totally missed your response..must have taken you ages too! I went into a state of shock and thought for a week or so after our discovery. It was the London Fertility Centre that I spoke to that offered us the match..so def the same one..also they said that they had no more info re hobbies..interests etc. That is far too mad to deal with..kiddies would be biological half brother and sisters?? Far too much to take on..would always know that there is a real family member out there and not want or be able to tell the child for everyones sake..but then how unfair for the child. I do think that if we did do donor..and really think not now..then we would tell people from an early stage and the child as soon as they would understand as I don't believe in secrets being good for you..far too dangerous if the truth were to ever leak out..and I would always worry about it. Our only other IVF option is to have another ICSI cycle..but my DH and I have 99% ruled this out as would have to have max drug dose and have no funding so not enough money unless we scraped all of our savings and perhaps get a loan...also I really don't know if I have lost hope and the element of excitement has been replaced by fear of emotional ..relationship..financial loss as well as my sanity..shit I am only 27..this seems just so unfair! Like you said it is not uncommon and we will be better stronger people at the end. I really think that the time is near for us to draw to the end..through away the books..tell all the clinics and doctors that we have decided to take another route (really couldn't deal with it if a clinic rang out of the blue to offer a NHS go..unlikely but would'nt want it to happen once this baby has been put to bed!..bad choice of words! Adoption is feel is our way future..we just needed to go through these thoughts to reach our decision..when we do decide we need to stick to it and stay off the 'IVF Drug' easier said than done..and I do think that I would need to find a special adoption website rather than this one as it would be so hard to switch off and terminate that option..oh we do wish for a miracle...mumps is such an unfair thing hey? I try to plan things now around my puppy as it is easier to deal with..so yesterday I was really excited to visit a friend from the gym that I hadn't seen for ages and her new puppy to talk kibble..and poop scoops (almost milk and nappies!) only to see when I arrived at the door a very rounded belly...PREGNANT!!!!! 16 weeks and hadn't told anyone..of course us girls can spy a bump anywhere no hiding them away from us. One thing that I know I will miss with the adoption is the feeling of a baby growing inside of me so I am trying to turn all of the concerns into reliefs..ie..no stretchmarks..can continue eating..exercising..drinking what I want. Back to what I was saying before if we did do ICSI and we were lucky then I really think that I would end up hating the feeling of things going wrong..would wrap myself in cotton wool and hide in the house for 9 months..not exactly healthy hey? Let me know your thoughts love Becky B

caz1 · Post by **caz1** » Wed Aug 20, 2003 2:53 pm

Hi Becky I must admit the adoption thing has cropped up for us too. The thing is - and I know this sounds bad - but I THINK i would miss not having a baby to look after - and I'm guessing with adoption its unlikely that we'd get a baby (at least a non handicapped baby). I had a handicapped brother - and altho he was WONDERFUL and we all loved him hugely its incredibly painful when they get ill and not sure I'm strong enough to go for that. Dunn o - i really havent found out anything about adoption yet so not sure what I'm talking about Am - like you - freaked by the architect thing. The thing was he seemed the only good donor they had availble for us. We have decided to give ICSI another go in JAn - altho I TOTALLY know what you mean about moving on. I am determined to enjoy the next few months before the tmt. I have to say I am only just know feeling back to normal - 6 weeks after tmt ended - I'm not a fragile person - but it really wacked me sideways. If icsi doesnt work for us- then I guess we will have to think about the donor thing at that stage AND if we go for it , how we would behave. I know what you mean about secrets - but not sure if being open is always good. I wonder whether you arent just making your problems other peoples?? What would happen is the baby grew up and said - "you know I really wish we had kept this private" - it would be too late. AHHH! Oh - theres a thing on Channel 4 nxt week (27th i think) about people looking for their biological fathers after years - might be interesting?? keep in touch What did you think of the LFC - is that where you were treated. I thought they were good- altho I always saw a different doc and I found it a bit chaotic at times. For next time I have insisted that I only see one or maybe two different people during the process. Would you use it again -if you were going to? Take care Cazxx

becky · Post by **becky** » Wed Aug 20, 2003 5:42 pm

Caz this whole thing is doing my head in..I was so ..well almost sorted that adoption was the way this morning and no seeing all of the positive results I have an excited feeling inside my tummy...and I must say a small jealous feeling that you are having another ICSI in Jan...does this mean that the road just has a blind bend...?? I had my tt at the Bridge Centre..they were really nice and small..but no positive..not that you can blame the centre..the poor body has to play a major part too.. I have ever been so confused in my life..surrounded by library books on adoption..price lists from clinics..natural fertility books..vitamin and mineral guides and every possible natural therapists number...URGGGHHHHHHHH I made a positive step this morning and asked my neighbour if we could borrow her 2 little ones to 'gain experience' for our adoption application..kind of felt wierd as why do I want to use my time up looking after another persons child? ..dreading it a bit really..I feel this whole thing makes you want a baby so badly and yet they turn into ugly little monsters in my mind..natual way to deal with it I guess...as for a cuddle with a new born..no thanks!Rather sits and hold on tight to a glass of wine. I had my inhibin test done a few weeks ago..this is what has caused this PANIC..as only 27 kind of thought we would have a go next year when we have saved up..and when we have rekindled the IVF/Sex life thing..almost there but having a few problems with the thoughts of the probes!! Strange? maybe? The results came back saying that I have the same fertility of a 40 year old woman..and should have treatment in the next 6 months if we are to have any more in he future..kind of distorted our plan if there is such a thing. I think that all we can do is wait to see the second urologist in December and have the sperm test number 103 (joking!) but it has been a few..as planned on 5th September..go to see DH's Dr and talk about antibodies testing and post coital testing ..and see my dr to see if she'll fund for NK killer test and stuff..and go from there..I think that this decision is going to take some time. I thnk that there is still a small chance for donor IUI..but we would go back to the Bridge Centre and also not mention anything about the donor to anyone..can't deal with the fact if someone else knows that they are having the same one..and it won't be THAT architect! A dazed and confused Becky B

caz1 · Post by **caz1** » Thu Aug 21, 2003 1:59 pm

Am SO the same One minute think DI is totally the way forward and that we should just get on with it and stop overanalysing and the next thinking - what the hell am I doing I could carry someone elses baby. Then I think about adoption and think , wouldnt it be great to give some poor kid a great chance and then I think _I dont want someones elses child. Been to see doc today and he think we should give ICSI aniother go but perhaps go somewhere else other than the LFC as out tmt was a bit chaotic last time. He suggested the Bridge centre too. So i really dunno I think realistically we will give ICSI another go - buit after that REALLY focus on the di question. Altho to be honest I think we should start focusing on it now because the chances of ICSI working for us a VERY slim. One of the girls I work with go PG thru IVF 3 month ago and has just been given 9 MONTHS off work, because shes "ill" !! UNBELIEVABLE. I asked for 3 months off and was toldto bugger off - AND I've been there longer than her! I tell you I WISH i had her "illness". God- am so bitter about it its awful, especially as I would probably have asked for the time off if I was in her position. She is just really scared about losng teh baby. I cant blame her - but the system does suck! OOOOOO, grrrrrrrrrrrr!! ps - SO SO know what you mean about glass of wine have HUGE appeal!

becky · Post by **becky** » Thu Aug 21, 2003 8:57 pm

I am so pleased that you understand where I am coming from..glad someone does...as I sometimes don't understand myself. Today is an adoption day..bought the scrap book to start writing a report on what fun things we are going to do with the kiddies next door. Work offered me a nice trip to Jamaica and the Turks and Caicos today mid of September..have to pay £250.00 (puts the value of money back into prospective as I was almost on £200 of drugs a day on ICSI 2)so think that I am going to accept as I could really do with the break. I have had a nice long chat with Dh tonight whilst walking the puppy and he is very keen to go for the adoption and knock the IUI donor and ICSI on the head..although we are still going to have a chat at the Bridge beginning of September to finally rule everything out..I think that these things just take time hey? Perhaps you should do the donor IUI or adopt if you really feel that ICSI offers you little chance as it is so much stress and upset..and financial loss..but then again it may work...URGHHH URGHHH brain cells are starting to die off. So pleased to have you to share these ever changing thoughts.. love Becky B

caz1 · Post by **caz1** » Fri Aug 22, 2003 8:35 am

Yup - you DO sound like me WOW - GO for the trip - I tell you travelling has been my saviour this summer. You must have a great job! I dont even know where to start with the adoption thing and sometimes I think we'd have no chance because actually i know NOTHING about children!! Yes ....its true. I have NO idea how to change a nappy, I never baby sit, abd I dont know what winding a baby means!! Surely they will give preference to someone who has childcare experience, And the thing is I would want a baby I think . WHat about you? You sould like you have done quite a bit more looking into it - has anyoine said to you what the chances are ofsucessfully adopting a baby? Would you be happy with a more grown up child?Hope you dont mind my asking these Qs. We are gonna go to the Bridge too and see what they have to say - then make a decsion from there about next tmt. Take care - spk soon! Cazx

becky · Post by **becky** » Sat Aug 23, 2003 4:19 pm

Hello Caz..well today is still an adoption day..but also a go for 1 or 2 or what age day? One with learning problems? sight problems? hearing problems? history of drug abuse? sexual abuse? over seas? so many things to think about...and it really is not helping with all of the IVF clinic packs hanging around...must must must make a final decision and then go go go go 100% forward. I have been thinking about the donor IUI again..keep thinking that hundreds of people do it and there are support groups..and at the end of the day it is just a little cell that makes lots of cells.. BUT..the complications could be so great..would DH deal with it all? Went out for a few too many glasses of wine last night..wanted to feel free again..but ended up feeling rough today..so had enough of being a 27 non committed to babies woman already..bring on the sore boobs..and the great excuse to stay in and chill out on the sofa (no offence to the preggie peeps out there..you lucky things) Started to make some positive steps and have asked next door if we can borrow their 2 children on the next few months on and off to 'gain child experience' as really we no nothing and the social workers suggest to use the waiting time wisely and do some learning...so thats what we decided to do and wait for it..they are arriving in 5 minutes for an hour (thanks to DH) Right must go they are here.. love Becky B

caz1 · Post by **caz1** » Sun Aug 24, 2003 9:40 pm

HI becky - WARNING -I have had 2 large glasses of vino and am rambling!! some thoughts....if you feel that you and dh could love and bring up and adoptive child as if it were you "own" ...then why would donor be a problem?? (I have no answer for this by the way!). I think the REAL problem with DI vs adoption...from My point of view, is that for SOME reason (dunno why) adoption is more open and acceptable, DI still seems a bit unusual / minority group ish - know what i mean? (I know this is a bit mad - but thats how it seems to me...put it this way I had heard of adoption but never really DI , before I knew we were gonna have our problems). Maybe its because in our slightly sexist society , we are more open about adoption because it lets us still be a bit ambiguos about who the infertile member of the couple is.....???I dunno. I guess you get round that problem by never being open about using a donor, ( about 75% dont tell) (thats what I've read anyway). ALSO....my gynae doc told me that he did a study at the Royal London Hospital a few years ago - and 10-20% of the children they tested were NOT the genetic kids of the "father" - ie Mum has gotten pg with someone else but never told ANYONE including her dh! They never let on - and whose to say anyones the worse off for it?? So - maybe we are over analysing it?? The DC Network is amazing - but I slightly think that they encourage people to OBSESS about what they have done rather than just getting on with their lives. ...I guess everyone has their own way of approaching it tho Oh - I dunno - so hard. I am even having moments of being off the whole child thing....just to add another dimention to it! Wouldnt it just be so much simpler if I could flick the wanting children switch off as quickly as it mysteriously switched itself on 2 years ago..... Anyway - gonna go and have a glass of water! Hope I havent rambled too much!! Cazx

shelld · Post by **shelld** » Sun Aug 24, 2003 10:08 pm

Sorry to interrupt your thread hope u dont just to let you know that i am involved with adoption through my work and lots of prospective adopters have been thru the ivf before coming to adoption, i'll try and find out if there are any special websites becky if you want. Good luck to you both whatever you decide. love shelld x

becky · Post by **becky** » Mon Aug 25, 2003 11:15 am

Hello Caz and Shelld Of course we don't mind you interupting our thread Shelld..any advice to make this decision the right one for all involved. Please let me know the websites and any groups that you know of..I know about BAAF and we are going to join that ..and have ordered 2 books that they say are good to read. I must ask though why you have not gone straight to adoption if you are working with it? Caz...hope that you are feeling bright and cheery..and that the vino has caused you no harm. I completely agree with what you say about the minority thing..you are so right we do try to conform to society as much as possible to make life an easy (or should I say easier) journey. I must admit it has crossed my mind at how easy it would be to have a one night stand and no one ever know..I expect DH would support me too..except for the risk of disease..etc..the things we consider hey!! I felt so sad to hear Scorry's news..and I must say although there have been so many positives of late..I am still so scared of getting a negative or worse getting a positive and things going wrong. I have been very strong throughout so far and feel that I am becoming more and more sensitive as the days go by. I also have considered the no kiddie thing..all of the nice holidays ..complete freedom..but I am scared for the future rather than the now. I still can't get the feeling out of my head that if we were to have treatment and again and we were to be lucky then would I really enjoy the pregnancy..I really doubt it ..Dh and I have decided to let nature take control if I am to give birth to our child..miracles do happen..and I do believe in miracles. Who knows that urologist that Dh is seeing in December may work miracles and realease something? or the cranial osteopath that we are both seeing this week. We decided last night to cancel the consultation with the Bridge Centre as we really don't want to be stirred up again..we really can't afford any more ICSI and the DI IUI doesn't feel quite right for us plus the success rates for IUI are quite a bit lower we would need to plan to have a few goes to give us the best chance of it working. If DH's count was to rise then maybe we would do IUI later on in life as they do it in our local NHS hospital and said that they would fund 2 cycles.What are you feeling today apart from hungover? love Becky B

caz1 · Post by **caz1** » Mon Aug 25, 2003 10:04 pm

hi there feel ok today - apart from not wanting to go to work tmrw. I know what you mean about the "fear" factor involved with continuing the process -I feel your pain, I mean I think I'm pretty robust but failing our first ICSI really knocked me and my dh told me last night that I'm not the person he used to know - thats REALLY shocked me as I thought I was covering it up pretty well! Just to let you know -I had cranial massage last week - my af had completely disappeared after failed ICSI and a day after my cranial it came back - pretty amazing. Will be VERY keen to hear what your urologist say ...and you are right miracle DO happen. Am I right in thinking that yr problem in DH low sperm count cause of mumps - or did I dream that. We are the same if I didnt - quite a shocker when we found out the news - how long have you known? We found out last year when my dh found a lump (luckily just a varecocele). WHAT A SHOCKER that was..... Take care Cazxx

becky · Post by **becky** » Tue Aug 26, 2003 6:51 am

I am up bright and early - trying to be very positive and not dread work..at least it can't be as bad as a Monday morning..just normally I have Tuesdays off and chill out and go to Yoga. You didn't dream up my DH having mumps..we ttc for 15 months or so and nothing so we saw the dr about 18 months ago he asked a few questions..one of which was did you have mumps as a child? Our answer was yes..but it was when he was about 8 - 11 no-one seems to remember for sure and there seem to be no medical notes from DH previous Dr..very annoying. I still find it very hard to accept that this is the reason..hence demanding to see another urologist. Dh said that he remembers nothing swelling in the bits and pieces and it was at the time just mumps..all in the throat. DH has a count of under 1 million and motility ranges between 10 - 50 % and 95% normally (I like to focus on the normals..as this makes us both feel better than quoting abnormality!)He has been on a no drinking 3 months ( Well he has had 3 units in the whole time which I have made him have for sanity reasons) so the next spermie test on the morning of my best friends wedding..how many ushers do you know that have the added job of sampling in the morning..so a week later we should know THE results. I doubt that they will be any different from all of the others but as we are able to have the test on the NHS we ought to take the opportunity to find out. I have promised DH that if there is no change then no more 3 months being extra good..but if there is a change how ever small..then back on the being good again. I am reading a brilliant book called The Fertility Solution all about the mind/body infertility thing and alot of it really makes sense..sort of saying that if you are really scared of the outcome of treatment then the mind will prevent it from happening to prevent more pain for you the other side (even when there would have been a great chance of it working with no problems at all.) We went out for a drink in a really nice pub close to us last night and had another chat..again!! lol lol ..must say starting to get rather boring. Dh finally opened up and said what he wants not saying what he thinks I want to hear him say..bless him he would do anything to make me happy..but I told him this decision must be what HE wants...and we will find a meeting place somewhere in the middle. He said that he didn't think that he was strong enough to go through another ICSI and that he felt very unsure about the donor..said that he was worried incase he didn't bond with the child..or did'nt feel an equal..to anyone reading this this is a very personal decision and I am sure that all people are very different in there reasons. He requested that we move on and forward and do go for adoption..as he wants our old relationship back and to be honest so do I. In a way I feel like the man I married has run away and hidden in a box..I now have one that is far less confident and much more emotional. So thats it...the decision is made and no more changing of minds..I am exhausted of thinking anyway...oh yeah so I am cancelling the appointment with The Bridge as there really is no need to stirr up the emotions yet again is there? Plus think what we could do with the £80. Don't get me wrong ..the element of is this the right decision is certainly still there..but now the choice has been made by DH it is easier to deal with..at the end of the day it is as much his choice as mine..perhaps with the DI even more. I value my marriage far to much to lose that special bond over wanting to have a biological baby. Have a nice day and I hope that you are getting closer to your answers. love Becky B

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