BNB
With attitude like that you are not worth the effort
Di
Twins????
kholtan,
sorry but your compliment was left-handed.
maybe my reply was rude. but i take exception to your suggestion that i'm treating ivf as though it were a careless night out on the town. and i find it condescending for you to imply that i will somehow come to see the light or something and wind up on the double trouble board.
sorry but your compliment was left-handed.
maybe my reply was rude. but i take exception to your suggestion that i'm treating ivf as though it were a careless night out on the town. and i find it condescending for you to imply that i will somehow come to see the light or something and wind up on the double trouble board.
No bnb, my compliment wasn't left-handed. That is not the way I conduct myself. I was expressing how I felt about that choice and the reasons that I don't believe in reducing from two to one. . . NOT my feelings about you. I never called YOU reckless, or selfish. In the same manner I didn't originally think you were calling me careless for being willing to carry triplets if I needed to.
Also, I was only suggesting that if you were truly faced with the choice I thought it would be much harder for you to do after 4 years of TTC. Especially knowing it could kill both babies. Obvoiusly, you want to be a mother as much as we all do.
I would not want anyone to feel I attacked them personally so I am sorry if you felt that way.
Also, I was only suggesting that if you were truly faced with the choice I thought it would be much harder for you to do after 4 years of TTC. Especially knowing it could kill both babies. Obvoiusly, you want to be a mother as much as we all do.
I would not want anyone to feel I attacked them personally so I am sorry if you felt that way.
Me 35, DH 35
Ectopic Oct. 2005
IVF transfer 1-21-07. . .TWINS!!!!
ww.batesbabies.blogspot.com
http://lilypie.com][img]http://b2.lilypie.com/2XRom7/.png[/img]
http://lilypie.com][img]http://bd.lilypie.com/hWoJm7/.png[/img]
Ectopic Oct. 2005
IVF transfer 1-21-07. . .TWINS!!!!
ww.batesbabies.blogspot.com
http://lilypie.com][img]http://b2.lilypie.com/2XRom7/.png[/img]
http://lilypie.com][img]http://bd.lilypie.com/hWoJm7/.png[/img]
kholtan,
my entire point is that it WOULD be a difficult and devastating decision to make.
i, also, have zero interest in personal attacks. and i think it's great that you have twins. i admire women who bear twins and who raise them.
motherhood is one of my greatest desires. but it is not my only desire. i do not feel that motherhood, or anything else for that matter, at ANY COST would be a positive thing. the world is more complex than that. and there are some prices that are too high to pay. every emotionally healthy person has them, whatever they may be. and i think it's healthy for children to have role models who think motherhood is about more than just self-sacrifice. i want my child/children to have strong, fulfilled role models. i'm not saying sacrifice isn't PART of motherhood. but, unlike kabillion who claims that motherhood is all about sacrifice, i think it is less one-dimensional than that. so, yes, i would carefully consider the factors that are optimal for me doing the best parenting job possible. i would also consider my own happiness as one factor in my decision making process. anyone who wouldn't is, in my opionion, very foolish indeed.
so i do take exception to an oversimplification of issues that are legitimately difficult and complex and that directly affect me. which is what i think has happened here. it's a slippery slope to take on the position that a complex situation can be reduced down to a simple one-size-fits-all solution. (eg: if your ivf cycle results in multiples you should have them all every time.) but it's not personal. far from it. in all honesty, i don't give a hoot what other people choose to do. not bc i'm uncaring but bc i'm a big advocate of personal freedom. as far as i'm concerned, that would be a good thing.
good luck to you.
my entire point is that it WOULD be a difficult and devastating decision to make.
i, also, have zero interest in personal attacks. and i think it's great that you have twins. i admire women who bear twins and who raise them.
motherhood is one of my greatest desires. but it is not my only desire. i do not feel that motherhood, or anything else for that matter, at ANY COST would be a positive thing. the world is more complex than that. and there are some prices that are too high to pay. every emotionally healthy person has them, whatever they may be. and i think it's healthy for children to have role models who think motherhood is about more than just self-sacrifice. i want my child/children to have strong, fulfilled role models. i'm not saying sacrifice isn't PART of motherhood. but, unlike kabillion who claims that motherhood is all about sacrifice, i think it is less one-dimensional than that. so, yes, i would carefully consider the factors that are optimal for me doing the best parenting job possible. i would also consider my own happiness as one factor in my decision making process. anyone who wouldn't is, in my opionion, very foolish indeed.
so i do take exception to an oversimplification of issues that are legitimately difficult and complex and that directly affect me. which is what i think has happened here. it's a slippery slope to take on the position that a complex situation can be reduced down to a simple one-size-fits-all solution. (eg: if your ivf cycle results in multiples you should have them all every time.) but it's not personal. far from it. in all honesty, i don't give a hoot what other people choose to do. not bc i'm uncaring but bc i'm a big advocate of personal freedom. as far as i'm concerned, that would be a good thing.
good luck to you.
kholtan,
my entire point is that it WOULD be a difficult and devastating decision to make.
i, also, have zero interest in personal attacks. and i think it's great that you have twins. i admire women who bear twins and who raise them.
motherhood is one of my greatest desires. but it is not my only desire. i do not feel that motherhood, or anything else for that matter, at ANY COST would be a positive thing. the world is more complex than that. and there are some prices that are too high to pay. every emotionally healthy person has them, whatever they may be. and i think it's healthy for children to have role models who think motherhood is about more than JUST self-sacrifice. i want my child/children to have strong, fulfilled role models. i'm not saying sacrifice isn't PART of motherhood. but, unlike kabillion who claims that motherhood is all about sacrifice, i think it is less one-dimensional than that. so, yes, i would carefully consider the factors that are optimal for me doing the best parenting job possible. i would also consider my own happiness as one factor in my decision making process. anyone who wouldn't is, in my opinion, very foolish indeed.
so i do take exception to an oversimplification of issues that are legitimately difficult and complex and that directly affect me. which is what i think has happened here. it's a slippery slope to take on the position that a complex situation can be reduced down to a simple one-size-fits-all solution. (eg: if your ivf cycle results in multiples you should have them all every time.) but it's not personal. far from it. in all honesty, i don't give a hoot what other people choose to do. not bc i'm uncaring but bc i'm a big advocate of personal freedom. as far as i'm concerned, that would be a good thing.
good luck to you.
my entire point is that it WOULD be a difficult and devastating decision to make.
i, also, have zero interest in personal attacks. and i think it's great that you have twins. i admire women who bear twins and who raise them.
motherhood is one of my greatest desires. but it is not my only desire. i do not feel that motherhood, or anything else for that matter, at ANY COST would be a positive thing. the world is more complex than that. and there are some prices that are too high to pay. every emotionally healthy person has them, whatever they may be. and i think it's healthy for children to have role models who think motherhood is about more than JUST self-sacrifice. i want my child/children to have strong, fulfilled role models. i'm not saying sacrifice isn't PART of motherhood. but, unlike kabillion who claims that motherhood is all about sacrifice, i think it is less one-dimensional than that. so, yes, i would carefully consider the factors that are optimal for me doing the best parenting job possible. i would also consider my own happiness as one factor in my decision making process. anyone who wouldn't is, in my opinion, very foolish indeed.
so i do take exception to an oversimplification of issues that are legitimately difficult and complex and that directly affect me. which is what i think has happened here. it's a slippery slope to take on the position that a complex situation can be reduced down to a simple one-size-fits-all solution. (eg: if your ivf cycle results in multiples you should have them all every time.) but it's not personal. far from it. in all honesty, i don't give a hoot what other people choose to do. not bc i'm uncaring but bc i'm a big advocate of personal freedom. as far as i'm concerned, that would be a good thing.
good luck to you.
I'm sorry I don't mean to sign in to get in a fight, but there had got to be something better you can do than kill your child. Could you maybe give one up for adoption? We have adopted our son and the thought that his mother could have killed him is just unbearable. (And by the way I do believe it is killing.) She is the most amazing person in the whole world to me. She wanted what was best for her child not her, and I do believe that that is what a mother does.
I don't believe it would wreck your life to have twins, we can always handle more than we think we can. I know people who have twins who take time for their interests and themselves so that they can be the best mom they can be. I guess when it all comes down to it I agree with Rebecca, most of us have been going through years of heartache, thousands and thousands of dollars, and all we want to be is parents. the thought of someone killing one is a hard one for us. Maybe not the best subject to post here if you want everyone to agree with your particular views.
Shanny
I don't believe it would wreck your life to have twins, we can always handle more than we think we can. I know people who have twins who take time for their interests and themselves so that they can be the best mom they can be. I guess when it all comes down to it I agree with Rebecca, most of us have been going through years of heartache, thousands and thousands of dollars, and all we want to be is parents. the thought of someone killing one is a hard one for us. Maybe not the best subject to post here if you want everyone to agree with your particular views.
Shanny
I do not want to sound insensitive to anyone and I'm not taking anyone's side. I'm just asking if we could all put these comments to rest now, as they seem to be getting everyone out of control, and this is supposed to be a place to go to get support, empathy and strength from others going through the same situation. It's been established that people feel differently, whether someone else feels their opinion is right or wrong, but now it's just getting hurtful and the whole meaning of this message board has been lost. I've had to terminate in the past due to severe abnormalities, and I also just found out yesterday that I might be carrying twins, but I'm not going to add to the ongoings of this sad post with my opinions and thoughts as they will no doubt get lost and/or be attacked by someone defending the other side. I mean no disrespect at all to anyone here, but infertility has been a long road for all of us and it's just sad to look for support here and have to read comments like this. I'm not looking to get into it with anyone, just hoping that we can all move forward from this.
-Heidi
-Heidi
Wow bnb you seem to be chomping at the bit to have some more people to argue with. And guess what? it is killing and that is just what I thought when I read all you "intelligent" comments on it being your choice, blah blah, blah. You are the only one who would stop you from being a good mother. Not the babies. Heidi you are right, this is a place of support and strength for me and I will not participate in bringing it down anymore. Sorry girls!
Shanny
Shanny
Well said Heidi! I'm very sorry to hear you have an to terminate due to abnormalities. That is something I cannot even imagine being faced with. Your experience is worth more than a million posts. So sorry for your loss. If you are carrying twins, I hope they are both healthy and growing well. Keep us posted on the Double Trouble thread in Pregnant after treatment. I'll be thinking of you and praying for the best results!!!!!! Good luck!
Me 35, DH 35
Ectopic Oct. 2005
IVF transfer 1-21-07. . .TWINS!!!!
ww.batesbabies.blogspot.com
http://lilypie.com][img]http://b2.lilypie.com/2XRom7/.png[/img]
http://lilypie.com][img]http://bd.lilypie.com/hWoJm7/.png[/img]
Ectopic Oct. 2005
IVF transfer 1-21-07. . .TWINS!!!!
ww.batesbabies.blogspot.com
http://lilypie.com][img]http://b2.lilypie.com/2XRom7/.png[/img]
http://lilypie.com][img]http://bd.lilypie.com/hWoJm7/.png[/img]
BNB says: "i would expect people on this board to be compassionate as to the nature of the pain of infertility."
We are all compassionate as to the pain of infertility. We are not compassionate to ending a life when yours is not in jeopardy.
Selective reduction when YOUR LIFE IS AT RISK is one thing, but for semblance of your life is selfish whether you like it or not. Why would you go and hire a specialized staff of highly trained scientists to just abort one? And you speak of it like it is no big deal.
Like another person has stated, why not then just implant one? Or if you feel it will somehow cramp your lifestyle then keep one and give another one up for adoption. As you see there are plenty of women who want a baby and cannot conceive themselves.
BNB also said, "i don't give a hoot what other people choose to do. not bc i'm uncaring but bc i'm a big advocate of personal freedom."
If I understand that correctly BNB means that since she doesn't hold any of us to any standard of behavior, we shouldn't hold her to one as well.
We are all compassionate as to the pain of infertility. We are not compassionate to ending a life when yours is not in jeopardy.
Selective reduction when YOUR LIFE IS AT RISK is one thing, but for semblance of your life is selfish whether you like it or not. Why would you go and hire a specialized staff of highly trained scientists to just abort one? And you speak of it like it is no big deal.
Like another person has stated, why not then just implant one? Or if you feel it will somehow cramp your lifestyle then keep one and give another one up for adoption. As you see there are plenty of women who want a baby and cannot conceive themselves.
BNB also said, "i don't give a hoot what other people choose to do. not bc i'm uncaring but bc i'm a big advocate of personal freedom."
If I understand that correctly BNB means that since she doesn't hold any of us to any standard of behavior, we shouldn't hold her to one as well.
Last edited by Kabillion on Sun Mar 11, 2007 6:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1st IVF July 2006 BFP!!!!
Twin Boys : )
Check out my cuties! www.gaudtwins.com
[img]http://tickers.TickerFactory.com/ezt/d/2;51;34/st/20070203/n/Roman+and+Xavier/k/beda/age.png[/img]
Twin Boys : )
Check out my cuties! www.gaudtwins.com
[img]http://tickers.TickerFactory.com/ezt/d/2;51;34/st/20070203/n/Roman+and+Xavier/k/beda/age.png[/img]