Message for Caz 2

millie19 · Post by **millie19** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 3:19 pm

Hi there, I am new to this site but have been reading it for some time. I am particularly interested in this topic as we have male factor infertility and ICSI was not an option so donor sperm has always been our only option. I am incredibly lucky in that I conceived a beautiful daughter through DIUI and not a day goes by when either of us forgets how incredibly fortunate we are. We are about to start an IVF cycle (having had a previous failed one) in the next couple of weeks in the hope of conceiving a brother or sister (or both!) for our daughter. My husband loves our child every bit as much as I do and she is the most precious thing in his life as she is in mine also. I never had any concerns about that issue and neither did he. As for the 'telling' thing, we have more or less decided that 'if' we do, and we probably will one day, it will not be until she is much older. Probably our biggest concern about telling when a child is very young is that they will probably talk quite openly about it when they are at school, which is no problem to us, but children can be cruel and I would be devastated if she was teased/bullied about if. We all know that children get bullied over the slightest things, ie. name, size etc. and I couldn't stand the thought of her being taunted over it. The other thing that concerns us is that she may grow up paranoid that she is not being treated equally with paternal cousins, although I am 100&% confident that wouldn't be the case, she may start looking for things and start to feel less important/loved. AGain, I couldn't bear that so for those main reasons, if we tell, it will be when she is old enough and mature enough to properly understand the situation. Of course, we all have different opinions, it is such a personal thing, and we all have to do what is right for us and our child/ren. I am always so interested to hear everyone's opinions and it helps us to see things from all avenues as well, ones that may not have occurred to us.

caz1 · Post by **caz1** » Sat Nov 08, 2003 3:29 pm

Millie thanks SO much for coming on here to talk. I cant tell you how AMAZING it is for someone like me to have the opportunity to hear from people who have gone down the donor route. I'm so happy to hear how much your hubbie lovees his little girl - one of my concerns has been about my dh would feel - and you have really put my mind at resy - altho i realise everyone reacts differently to things I totally see you point about keeping it from your little girl until shes old enough to know how to handle the sitution - and the school thing is one of my main concerns about telling too. May I ask, what will you do when she starts asking questions about how she came to be etc? Will you just say that you had some help and leave it at that? I guess little kids probably arent interested in too much more detail than that - are they? I really really hope that you tmt goes well for you -PLEASE do keep in touch! Lisa - the medical thing is a really good point? Dont really know how you'd get around it....have forgotten do you get medical info on teh donor? Millie have you had to think about this issue - I guess so?? Would love to chat anytime - if the chat room works? Cazxx

july ann · Post by **july ann** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 4:17 pm

hi girls I have found this thread great as ivf is bad enough but bringing in a donor really brings in other questions, it is good to hear your veiw's. well I have just got back from the clinic and we are going to have di, so no drugs. I just wee on a stick and when I surge I go in and have the sperm put in. Well it will seem really weird not taking the drugs but really did not want to take anymore.Should have di around 4 december who know's could have a great xmas present. The odds are not that good just 11% per cycle but i can have 6 goes. well good luck to all those on the 2wk, and hope you get a positive from july ann

caz1 · Post by **caz1** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 7:10 pm

God Julyann - HOW exciting! PLEEEEEASE keep us in touch - I so hope it all works out for you. Bet when your PG all the "issues" we are thinking about know will just fly out of your mind - you'll just be focused on teh little one Fingers crossed for you Cazxx PS....V nosey Q..have you had to choose a donor yet -or does the clinic do that for you? Hope you dont mind my askin. Cazx

millie19 · Post by **millie19** » Wed Nov 12, 2003 3:27 pm

Hi Caz and everyone, thanks for replying, I would be more than happy to answer any questions you have about this issue. I have been on to the Donor Conception Network, as I'm sure you probably all have and of course they are totally biased in favour of telling the child from infancy! However, they do not address the issues about possible bullying, possible feelings of inadequacy etc., feelings which could particularly surface during early teenage years with all those hormones flying around! I believe that a certain amount of those feelings could arise anyway, even if you were told at a very young age as certain issues may suddenly pop into their heads they they wouldn't have been mature enough to consider at an earlier age, even if you had been very open about them, ie., not only not being biologically related to their father, but also their grandparents, the realisation that not only do they have a biological father out there somewhere but also biological grandparents and perhaps sisters/brothers etc. etc. Although a proportion of the shock factor would be taken away by telling early on, I still believe it could begin to haunt in those delicate pubescent years. I've talked myself into it haven't I??!! I really do believe that would be the case and it is my hope that because she is so truly loved and has such a stable family life that she will be able to accept it at a time when she can properly understand all aspects. Wouldn't it be nice if somewhere there were opinions from adults conceived via donor sperm and who had been told later on. I know there are so many issues to consider and also the medical thing could be an issue, though I am hoping that again, if it was, it wouldn't be until later on. Of course, if anything tricky pops up prior to them having been told, then I guess we would have to re-think. As for any questions regarding how she came to be, I think I would just talk about the basics of how anyone is conceived, ie., egg and sperm, but without lying of course but if any direct questions were asked, and I don't see why they would be if the child is unaware of circumstances, then I certainly wouldn't lie. As you said, if she knows anything about the assisted conception I would just talk about the basic procedure, I truly do believe that this is best for my daughter, I really don't care about anyone knowing when me and dh are concerned, I just want to protect my child. I have to say I think that a situation like this produces the greatest fathers as they realise how lucky they are to have a child they thought they might never have. My dh is absolutely great with her, plays with her all the time, as is as involved in everything she does as I am, I really can't believe that you would have any problems in that respect. I mean, they are there at conception, or as much as any man is!!, they are there all through the pregnancy to see the baby developing and they are there at the birth. I really have gone on haven't i! I really hope no-one thinks I am suggesting other viewpoints on telling are wrong, I really don't, its just that this feels right for me. Love Millie ps. you are given the opportunity to select a donor, on build, height, hair and eye colour, or at least you are at UCH! They always call for an approval. I have to say it always feels like a slightly odd conversation!! but if I ever question it, I just look at my little girl who makes us so very happy!

millie19 · Post by **millie19** » Wed Nov 12, 2003 3:31 pm

Sorry, me again. two other things I meant to share - We have only told immediate family about the donor thing, some close friends know about IVF but I have been vague and said unexplained infertility. I've only told them because it becomes difficult with friends you see regularly to suddenly not be able to plan anything with them, ie. heavy drinking nights etc. and I hate lying. Also, you would be amazed at how many people have said our daughter looks like my husband!!!! I Promise to go away now!

caz1 · Post by **caz1** » Sat Nov 15, 2003 10:04 am

Hi Millie Thanks SO SO SO SO much for sharing all this. It so private to you but as you obviously appreciate so well - so incredibly interesting for me (us!) to hear. For what its worth I think your approach is wonderful - in a way its just simple isnt it.....you JUST HAVE TO DO whats best for you and your child. I totaly take your point on board about the risk of your daughted being teased, at school for instance - and thats EXACTLY my concern. Slightly tangential , but I was reading an article about - and this IS VAGUELY RELEVANT I PROMISE - about children born as a result of the atrocities in Bosnia (you can imagine what I'm referring to ) - the mothers and child agencies were asked if they would tell their kids the truth about their conception - most said that eventually they would but they strongly felt that it was important to wait until teh child was old enough to have developed their own self of who they were and strength of personality. Their point was that if you told a child from day one -YES you wouldnt ever have to face "that conversation" but that it might affect the childs development and personality from a very young age - when they are at their most "formative" . Am really waffling - not sure if its relevant but I thought when I read it that there were some parallels to what we are going through - and I could really see the argument for just letting a child grow up with no "issues" hanging over them. I think most sociologists say that by mid teens - most humans have fully developed personalities.....who knows, maybe thats a better time to tell. Altho - wow, I take your point about the raging hormones at that age. can really see both sides of the argument - as you say it would be wonderful if someone did a study of donor kids who were never told or told when they were adults. Which of course would by definition - be an impossible study to do I suppose! PS -I know what you mean about the DC Network - they are great - but VERY one sided in their views about telling. Take care Cazx

caz1 · Post by **caz1** » Thu Nov 20, 2003 5:55 pm

Hello girls just thought I'd bring this to the top to see how you all are? I am generally OK - but getting seriously hacked off with work and am just not really "there" mentally anymore. Think I'm just bored and wondering what the point of it all is. Also bit worried....had 1st IVF/ ICSI tmt at london fertility clinic in june - failed. We had follow up meeting and made it pretty clear we werent happy with out tmt and that we were going to get a 2nd opinion from somewhere else. We did so - at the Bridge - they have been even less helpful and generally quite sniffy about the whole thing - and have recommended we go back to teh LFC. Have called my original doc at the LFC to grovel a bit and to ask if we can go back there in march for go number 2 (Altho WHY I should grovel as we pay more than £5000 a go I DO NOT know) - anyway he wasnt there and hasnt called me back. Bit worried I've pissed them off and that I've now burnt my bridges with them? O dear. Think am a bit hormonal a stressing too much - someone tell me I'm being an idiot! Also - REALLY want to hear how you are all doing? Cxx

helenlouise · Post by **helenlouise** » Thu Nov 20, 2003 6:47 pm

Caz, do you live/work in London? I ask because you list 2 clinics there, but have you looked elsewhere? helen

caz1 · Post by **caz1** » Thu Nov 20, 2003 10:50 pm

yup am based here - so would be imposs to go elsewhere. its annoying cause they're both meant to be "good". Dunno - I guess they are but in both cases just feels a bit like a factory line. Do you know what I mean? Anyway - I suppose if they get results thats all that matters - but just felt with the LFC that I kept seeing different people each time I went there. Anyway, well see if they ever call me back!! Thanks for chatting me ! Where are you being treated? Take care Cazxx

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Nov 20, 2003 10:55 pm

Hi Girls Hope you are all well??!! Caz - I know what you mean about being hacked off........I am on the verge of taking time off, I have just no interest and I'm fed up pretending to be in good form! I am at the London Womans Clinic and so far have found it to be really good, they are very straight to the point and the nurses are wonderful, although from what I can gather this whole thing is pot luck anyway. Have to go tomorrow for a dummy ET as I have had Cervical Stenosis, then I have to go for a scan at the beginning of the next af and the treatment begins.......at last. They are going to put me on the pill for three weeks, then injecting of one thing for two weeks then another thing for two........sorry about being vague, I just find it rather a lot to take in! After that it is fingers crossed for our one and only attempt at ICSI before donor. In the mean time, I am trying not to be the most depressing person in the world!! Wishing you all the best of luck Love Jenxx

caz1 · Post by **caz1** » Thu Nov 20, 2003 10:59 pm

Hi Jen So good to hear from you! Sounds like yyou are well on the way - its pretty exciting at this stage aint it?!!!! Altho like you I found it all slightly vague too - altho next time have promised myself I'm not going to over analyse and just go with the flow! must apologise as have had a glass of vino and its a bit late - so sorry if this is a bit overly dramatic! BUT HELLLLLLPPPPPPPP!!!!! Suddenly having confidence crisis re using donor sperm. I REALLY do feel OK with it in theory - but just suddenly having panic attack about how I might ACTUALLY FEEL - if it ever worked and i was pg - but NOT with my DHs child. Could I cope - would it just seem too wierd - would I freak out in the middle of it all. Would my DH accpet it all?? help help ?! Should I be thinking like this? Am too worried to tell my husband as I think he'll just try and talk me out of the whole thing - which i dont want - because I think its our only realistic chance of ver having a baby - and i cant bear the thought of never having kids. O dear - told you I was ramblin! Sorry. Cazxx

millie19 · Post by **millie19** » Fri Nov 21, 2003 11:18 am

Hello everyone, so sorry you are feeling so confused Caz. The thing about going through all this is that it gives you too much time to think about it all. How many women out there just go out, get pregnant, have three kids by three different fathers (I work in a GP surgery so see an awful lot of this sort of thing!!) and don't give their children a second thought. We all want this so much that we give all the aspects so much thought before becoming pregnant, which can only be a good thing for our future children, (even though we are driving ourselves mad). Does that make any sense? I truly belive that WHEN you get pregnant, you will not harbour a single regret about what you have done because your baby will be the most wonderful thing in your world. I know its hard and you have to feel sure about it in your own mind, but speaking from my own experience, its the best thing I've ever done and am hoping to be lucky again. By the way, I thought the Bosnia point was incredibly relevant and underlined exactly the way I feel about the child being emotionally mature and secure in themselves, thanks for that. As for your clinic, I feel that the most important thing is that you feel confident in who is dealing with you and your treatment and I think if you don't then you should find somewhere else. I know you said you are in London, have you thought about the University College Hospital. They are all so nice and friendly, the nurses are especially lovely and put you at so much ease - just a suggestion, I think its so important to feel confortable and, as you say, this treatment is so expensive, you have the right and should expect to be made to feel confident about the treatment you are receiving. I am about to start injections (joy!) over the next few days, from my last go, I think i do that for a couple of weeks then its collection with transfer on day 3. prob will be testing about a week before Christmas which is a bit scary!

caz1 · Post by **caz1** » Fri Nov 21, 2003 5:18 pm

HI millie - thanks so much for replying. I cant tell you how wonderful it is to hear about your experiences - and I feel very reassured. In my heart of hearts I know you're right that if I was ever lucky enough to actually get pg - that would be that - I'd be the luckiest happiest person alive!! PLLLLEEEAEASE keep us in touch with you tmt all the luck in the world! and thanks..... cazxx

Lisa_P · Post by **Lisa_P** » Sat Nov 22, 2003 11:01 am

HI there everyone Je - I'm too on the pill at the moment, I start sniffing to downreg next week and then start injecting beginning of Dec. My clinic have called this a short protocol becasue i wanted to do another cycle before Xmas and it was the only way to 'fit' it in!! Just for your information in REAL magazine this fortnight there is a good article all about sperm donor conception and it has 3 different stories relaying the questions that we all ask about this subject - thought it was worth a mentiona nd I definitely found it thought prevoking. Hope you are all keeeping well Lisa x x

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