Acupuncture with IVf - HELP

[lace7725]

Hello ... I start Lupron today and I also went to my first acupuncture appt. I was wondering how many did acupucture or are doing now with IVF and how they felt about it. Any advice? How many times did you go?

Thank you so very much!!!
Lacy

[woodcliff]

I opted not to do it, although my clinic was all for it. I decided not to do it for several reasons...as the needles would stress, rather than relax, me.

One reason was that I've never had accupuncture. Too many drugs in my body, and too many new things with IVF to 'grasp' ... I didn't want to toss in an unproven treatment...

And second, the studies I've seen on it (I'm a medical writer) have not convinced me that it would help me conceive...I believe in pure science and real studies--large, controlled studies which haven't yet been done with accupuncture...(a few small population ones have been done...but how can you really compare success to failure in IVF? One embryo may simply be healthier than another one that doesn't make it...)

I feel there are too many true, scientific variables to make any studies on acupuncture accurate...(egg quality, sperm quality, womb quality, past failures, etc)

That said, many women have been at IVF for years, and will try anything they think will help...I say go for it, if that's your case. For me, I'm sticking to the strict science of IVF.

Good luck

[Jen1d]

Hi

I have had acu for 2 of my cycles then not for the other 2.
I am now on my 5th cycle but with DE, i did this in Barcelona and had acu before and after ET, i cant tell you how it calmed me down.
You need to PM Carolyn on the Egghead thread, she knows loads about it and after talking to her i gave it another go.
My Doctors all recommend it and the lady i used in Spain was recommended via Harley Street.
Read the German study on the internet, they say it helps the uterus to stop contracting etc.
I think it is well worth it, even if it just relaxes you

Good luck

Jen x

[albany07]

Lacy,

I think you were on the Sept/Oct cycle buddies board at one time or another.... I am starting Lupron on Sunday, ER Sept 22-26 estimate...

I decided on doing acu and I love it!!! There is definitely a reason they have been doing it for thousands of years and major academic medical centers are now doing studies on it's role/influence in IVF. I started one week ago and I have already noticed marked changes going on in my body. No pain from the needles, only pressure. I have coincidently lost 3 pounds, feel more alert and sleep better at night. I am glad I chose to do Acupuncture!

[Cocoa]

Wow Albany... I think I'll go for it AFTER the baby comes...

For me I think TCM is a good thing in this stressed out world in which we live and for those ladies who can afford it, feel comfortable with it and look forward to a general sense of well-being through it I say go for it because it COULD help... yet... I cannot help but agree with Woodcliff here too. The egg/sperm/embryo quality plays a HUGE role in IVF success as does timing, hormone level, uterine receptivity etc. For ME I WAS going to do it BUT because I chose to spend quality money and quality time on "cleaning" my uterus of pathogens (bacteria) I felt strongly that this was the key. We carry SO many pathogens in our reproductive systems (e.g. STD's) because those systems (esp for a woman) are receptive to outside influences as they are "out in the open" with pathways IN. Many people have bacterial infections they THOUGHT had been erradicated through antibiotics yet one little abberant bacterium found a hiding place and proliferated when the body got stressed... see where I am going here? I had a vaginal and cervical culture that were ALL clear but 2 months later when I went in for a specialized UTERINE (endometrium) biposy which went to a lab specializing in bacteria that grow in the repro system I was found to have TWO types of bacteria!!! My husband didn't even know he harbored these bacteria!!! Anyway, I received this specialized treatment in NYC by the ONLY doctor who does this... He's incredible. I truly believe it was THAT, along with healthy blastocysts (which have to be strong to make to that stage) that ultimately brought me my BFP!!!

Whatever you decide make sure your uterus is healthy...

Much sticky baby dust and hopes for a BFP for all those cycling and waiting in the 2ww!!!

Cocoa

[lace7725]

albany07 yes I was on that thread ... I have been so busy and not much time to post. Well I will continue with the acupuncture. I am supposed to go twice a week until retrival ... then I go 3-4 days after retrival (if I can) and then I go again 4 days after transfer. She has me on a diet (not for weight lose, but for healthy food reasons). Like no red meat and LOTS of greens!

I did enjoy the acupuncture today - not painful at all (well the ear was strange, but would not say painful).

I start Lupron TONIGHT and honestly I am SO excited. Not nervous at all! I can not believe it ... I am just happy right now. )

[lace7725]

albany07 yes I was on that thread ... I have been so busy and not much time to post. Well I will continue with the acupuncture. I am supposed to go twice a week until retrival ... then I go 3-4 days after retrival (if I can) and then I go again 4 days after transfer. She has me on a diet (not for weight lose, but for healthy food reasons). Like no red meat and LOTS of greens!

I did enjoy the acupuncture today - not painful at all (well the ear was strange, but would not say painful).

I start Lupron TONIGHT and honestly I am SO excited. Not nervous at all! I can not believe it ... I am just happy right now. )

[lace7725]

albany07 yes I was on that thread ... I have been so busy and not much time to post. Well I will continue with the acupuncture. I am supposed to go twice a week until retrival ... then I go 3-4 days after retrival (if I can) and then I go again 4 days after transfer. She has me on a diet (not for weight lose, but for healthy food reasons). Like no red meat and LOTS of greens!

I did enjoy the acupuncture today - not painful at all (well the ear was strange, but would not say painful).

I start Lupron TONIGHT and honestly I am SO excited. Not nervous at all! I can not believe it ... I am just happy right now. )

[CarolynB]

Hi Lace

Sorry not to get back to you sooner. Just been a bit busy. I am the lady that Jen1d refers to above.

I must say that I am a huge fan of acupuncture. Pleased to see that you plan to continue. So do I. So let me set out why in case others are also reading this thread.

1. I find it no pain at all and very stress busting. At a minimum for me it is a chance to lie down in a quiet room for 1/2 an hour away from rushing around with the rest of my life. Who could possibly be afraid of the needles when we are all injecting ourselves all the time anyway?

2. It has certainly regulated my cycles which in the past had been all over the place. I am now very much more regular. Sorry if this is TMI but it has also made AF much redder and also much freer from clots compared to when I first went. He told me there would be a change. I did not believe him. Thought that it was all rubbish. Then it happened just as he said it would

3. I have had ivf tmts at two top London clinics (Hammersmith and ARGC which has the best published success rates in the country). At both places the consultants asked me (unprompted) if I was using acu to compliment ivf. Why would they say that unless they thought that it really helped?

4. There are two basic protocols based on what I have read. The Swedish protocol which is usually used twice a month - once around ovulation to improve blood flow to the uterus and once just before AF starts to help clean you out. Then the German protocol which is usually done before and after ET. This acts to calm and reduce the risk of uterine contractions. So the medical studies of success are maybe not as robust as they should be but based on what I have read the German protocol can lift your basic chance of success by 15%. Two groups against each other - one with acu, the other without. If we waited til everything was totally proven out then we might miss the bus or it all be found out to late to help us. If everything was proven in ivf medically then success rates would be higher also

5. We put so many meds into our system that anything which compliments this has to be good news for our bodies

6. At every scan that I have had since I started tmt they have commented on how good my lining is. That is one of the key areas my acu has worked with me to improve

7.My acu on Harley St helps lots of woman alongside ivf/infertility. He was invited to speak at some gathering of the great/good consultants in ivf last year. He is a great sounding board for me to use also to discuss tmt/next steps especially as he sees so many other ladies. Ladies go to see him from hundreds of miles away

So why would I still think that it is worthwhile after 4 failed cycles (acu for the last 3 cycles). Because my eggs are so poor that nothing would help them implant - how ever amazing the lining/environment was. Bottom line, there are lots of factors involved but egg quality is by far the biggest of them all. That is why I now need to turn to donor eggs. However great the new eggs are then I will certainly be doing acu (same lady as Jen1d in Barcelona) to help the chances of the eggs that somebody will so kindly give to me the very best possible start to life.

What I would say is that it is worth finding someone who specialises in ivf/infertility if at all possible rather than a generalist. I specifically wanted to work with somebody who knew the clinics/protocols that I was using and who would work with the clinics.

Go for it I say! Cannot see any downside to it at all - other than the money it costs but even that is small in the scheme of ivf costs.

Good Luck with your treatment. Let us know if the acu helps you to a +ve result.

Best Wishes
Carolyn

[shantala]

hi lace

i definitely agree with carolyn here....there are many positive points for accu. there are plenty of studies to show that it can increase your chances of success and i think even if it doesnt, if there's even a chance at increasing your success rates then why not got for it.

having said that, its definitely a personal choice and my main tip would be to trust your gut instinct. i did accupuncture with my first IVF (amongst other things such as completely giving up caffeine, alcohol, etc, etc) as i saw the studies and wanted to give it absolutely EVERYTHING i could. i would say though that PERSONALLY the accu stressed me out more than it relaxed me. the injections were bad enough for me to get used to so any more needles was just awful. dont get me wrong, once they were in i was chilled out to the point of going to sleep but i can honestly say i never actually looked forward to my accu appointments. in addition, i found it hard enough to fit the IVF appointments into work, let alone another load of appointments for accu. and there's the money side of things. anyway, that's a completely personal opinion and thats why i didnt do it 2nd time round.

sorry for my long post...what i'm trying to say is, if it relaxes you (and like carolyn said if it gives you half an hour to just chill) then i would definitely go for it. but if you dont find it that relaxing and you just feel like you're doing it because you feel you should then i wouldnt bother. hope that helps!

xxx

[lace7725]

The acu doctor told me she wants me to come twice a week until retrival. That seems like a lot and it really expensive. $60 each time. YIKES

[albany07]

Yes, I pay the same - as we are located in downtown Chicago. Location, Location, Location. I have found places in the further away and in the suburbs, but figured with gas and drive time it was all the same.

In my opinion and in my situation, it is the right thing for me. Total will be around $700 - $800. I have sacrificed weekly manicures and pedicures for this and no eating out.

I hear you about the ears! The worst one for me is the one at the top of my skull!


If you are happy with it, stay and sacrifice something. If not, don't.

Through my research of ivf and acupuncture in general, I noticed some mention with your situation. Has your acupuncturist talked to you about alkaline vs. acidic foods? If so, what are they? You also mentioned your acu recommended a certain diet. Mine did not make any comment on diet - I do eat very healthy, so it may not have been a problem (I follow USDA guidelines).

Hope all is well, enjoy the fam this weekend!!!!

[albany07]

Yes, I pay the same - as we are located in downtown Chicago. Location, Location, Location. I have found places in the further away and in the suburbs, but figured with gas and drive time it was all the same.

In my opinion and in my situation, it is the right thing for me. Total will be around $700 - $800. I have sacrificed weekly manicures and pedicures for this and no eating out.

I hear you about the ears! The worst one for me is the one at the top of my skull!


If you are happy with it, stay and sacrifice something. If not, don't.

Through my research of ivf and acupuncture in general, I noticed some mention with your situation. Has your acupuncturist talked to you about alkaline vs. acidic foods? If so, what are they? You also mentioned your acu recommended a certain diet. Mine did not make any comment on diet - I do eat very healthy, so it may not have been a problem (I follow USDA guidelines).

Hope all is well, enjoy the fam this weekend!!!!

[kbat]

I know I am coming in a little late to this, but I have debated for quite some time about this. Neither clinic I've been to has even recommended this. I have a Chinese friend whose aunt does this even for IVF except not in my state. It appears that there are studies that show this could help and that it increase one's chances. There seems to be studies out there that indicate that there's no proof it works. I did find an accupunturist near where I live who said it does seem to increase the odds although, no guarantees, which isn't surprising since I am sure that they don't want people calling up saying that you told me it would work.

So, since I have been debating it, I did call the re's office to kind of see what their stance on it is. I was told that there's no conclusive evidence as to whether it helps or not, so they would not advocate it. however, they said that some patients have done it, and found it relaxing, calmining, etc. They said it definately would not hurt to do this, and if you believe something will help, that it might just help (thought this was a very weird statement.) Since my fsh levels are on the high side and due to this, my re may only want to do one more (I would only have 2 more through insurance anyway), I figure why not try it. One thing I was definately told however was NOT to do any of the herbs. They don't know if they could be toxic to the embryos.

I've tried to look into this and most say that you should do it once a week for about 3-4 months before you have a cycle. But I am on a much shorter time table. I go back to work in Jan, and my insurance company usually gives me a time limit to finish my cycle. Most want $75 for the intial visit, then 60 thereafter. I was told my chinese friend's aunt, it's best to get a Chinese person to do this. There is one where I live and he's saying it's $50 per session and that I can still do it even if I have my cycle towared the end of Oct/Nov., but to do twice a week. Kind of expensive, especially if it doesn't help w/ the pregnancy part. But I guess if it helps relax me, makes me sleep better, get my body into a better cycle all away around, it can't be so bad...

[boonie]

Albany -

Can you tell me where in chicago you go? I've been going back and forth with the idea of accupunture.

You can PM me if you prefer.

Thanks!