Hello,
We went through IVF ER later last week. The result was 11 eggs, with 7 embroyos. The doctor sent the embroyos for PGD today and a while ago I got the devastating news that all the embroyos are abnormal and they are not going ahead with the ET tomorrow.
We are meeting the doctor tomorrow to discuss this but we are being told that it could be quality of sperm or eggs probably were not enough to give a normal case and we should try one more cycle. This is a tough decision on us and we are already in state of shock. Whats bothering is that we went through all tests earlier and sperm results were fine and so was everything with my wife.
Any guidence from folks on the board who have had this kind of experience or who can suggest anything will be appreciated.
Thanks
T
We need help - Did anyone had same experience ?
Hi,
My re told me (yesterday) that the PGD test is extremely controversial because it isn't necessarily accurate. He said that embryos that are considered abnormal could actually be normal. I'm not sure why and I'm sorry I can't help you more, but I would ask your re about it.
Good luck!
My re told me (yesterday) that the PGD test is extremely controversial because it isn't necessarily accurate. He said that embryos that are considered abnormal could actually be normal. I'm not sure why and I'm sorry I can't help you more, but I would ask your re about it.
Good luck!
Me:33 PCOS
DH: 32
DD: 3 1/2
ttc for 2 1/2 years
5 miscarriages
ivf #1- bfn
fet #1- bfn (chemical preg)
fet #2- bfn (chemical preg)
iui #1- bfn
iui#2- bfn
iui #3-?
DH: 32
DD: 3 1/2
ttc for 2 1/2 years
5 miscarriages
ivf #1- bfn
fet #1- bfn (chemical preg)
fet #2- bfn (chemical preg)
iui #1- bfn
iui#2- bfn
iui #3-?
I`m so sorry to hear of such devastation. There can be many factors to why this had taken place. I think that you need to sit down with the DR. and ask all your ?`s. He is the only one who really does know. I do know that if they stopped growing then yes it was the right choice to cancel ET. It is a very painful process. Give your wife a big hug. Best Wishes to the two of you!ME 32
DH 34
DS 5
1st IVF Dec\Jan BFN
1st FET AUG
2nd IVF Oct
DH 34
DS 5
1st IVF Dec\Jan BFN
1st FET AUG
2nd IVF Oct
-
jt - ivf at 41
- Member
- Posts: 30
- Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 3:19 pm
Tony,
I told my Dr initally that I was interested in PGT and he told my husband and I that there would never be any good enough to transfer as embryos are un - perfect. He never suggests this route.
My heart goes out to you both! Sorry you did not recieve better advise from your RE.
I told my Dr initally that I was interested in PGT and he told my husband and I that there would never be any good enough to transfer as embryos are un - perfect. He never suggests this route.
My heart goes out to you both! Sorry you did not recieve better advise from your RE.
Joanna
tubal ligation
Ist IVF January 13th BFN
tubal ligation
Ist IVF January 13th BFN
hi Tony
First of all I am so sorry to hear about this. How old is your wife? I'm 42 & going through my first IVF ( ER Sun?) and this is my biggest fear. Over 40 we have to have PGD.
From all that I read, it's likely not the PGD. If your lab is equiped to do it, then I'm sure the greatest care was taken. Just because your wife checked out ok (I'm assuming the FSH was normal) doesn't mean the eggs are all great quality. FSH is the best indicator they have, but far from perfect. It's much harder to assess the quality of a woman's eggs because they obviously don't have access to them like sperm to test.
Bear in mind that women having embies implanted at 3 days have no idea if they're completely ok or not & often a neg outcome is because they weren't. At least this way you already know. All it takes is one really good embryo & with PGD you know it's really good. So I would do it again...I would think you'd get a good one next time.
I know emotionally it's so tough but this fertility process is strange. I know people who've been told to give it up, only to have positive outcomes later.
Please keep us posted, and I send you both all the best for the next go.
Say a prayer for me this weekend
Take care
Rin
First of all I am so sorry to hear about this. How old is your wife? I'm 42 & going through my first IVF ( ER Sun?) and this is my biggest fear. Over 40 we have to have PGD.
From all that I read, it's likely not the PGD. If your lab is equiped to do it, then I'm sure the greatest care was taken. Just because your wife checked out ok (I'm assuming the FSH was normal) doesn't mean the eggs are all great quality. FSH is the best indicator they have, but far from perfect. It's much harder to assess the quality of a woman's eggs because they obviously don't have access to them like sperm to test.
Bear in mind that women having embies implanted at 3 days have no idea if they're completely ok or not & often a neg outcome is because they weren't. At least this way you already know. All it takes is one really good embryo & with PGD you know it's really good. So I would do it again...I would think you'd get a good one next time.
I know emotionally it's so tough but this fertility process is strange. I know people who've been told to give it up, only to have positive outcomes later.
Please keep us posted, and I send you both all the best for the next go.
Say a prayer for me this weekend
Take care
Rin
Me: 43 Dh 60
IVF#1 no ET..poor egg quality...then AP & herbs
IVF #2 BFP chem IVF #3 clinic dosing error so had to switch to IUI, BFP!! A Boy!
[img]http://tickers.TickerFactory.com/ezt/d/2;31;28/st/20090706/n/Riley+William/dt/-3/k/3cc9/age.png[/img]
IVF#1 no ET..poor egg quality...then AP & herbs
IVF #2 BFP chem IVF #3 clinic dosing error so had to switch to IUI, BFP!! A Boy!
[img]http://tickers.TickerFactory.com/ezt/d/2;31;28/st/20090706/n/Riley+William/dt/-3/k/3cc9/age.png[/img]
PS
The clinic I go to in LA is in the top 10 in the country and they have a lot of faith in PGD for older patients & those with the possibility of genetic disorders.
Rin
The clinic I go to in LA is in the top 10 in the country and they have a lot of faith in PGD for older patients & those with the possibility of genetic disorders.
Rin
Me: 43 Dh 60
IVF#1 no ET..poor egg quality...then AP & herbs
IVF #2 BFP chem IVF #3 clinic dosing error so had to switch to IUI, BFP!! A Boy!
[img]http://tickers.TickerFactory.com/ezt/d/2;31;28/st/20090706/n/Riley+William/dt/-3/k/3cc9/age.png[/img]
IVF#1 no ET..poor egg quality...then AP & herbs
IVF #2 BFP chem IVF #3 clinic dosing error so had to switch to IUI, BFP!! A Boy!
[img]http://tickers.TickerFactory.com/ezt/d/2;31;28/st/20090706/n/Riley+William/dt/-3/k/3cc9/age.png[/img]
I am 40 (going to be 41 in Feb) and I've had 5 IVF cycles. I've had ICSI w/ the last 2 and the last one was ICSI w/ assisted hatching. There's no problems w/ my husband, but I've been told that my FSH levels are borderline high (at 11 and 11.7--although some clinics say anything over 10 is high and others seem to indicate that anything over 12 is high)
On the 1st two cycles I had a day 2 transfer because the clinic I was at told me that if they get the exact number of eggs or less that they want to transfer on day 2. The current clinic I am going to doesn't usually like to do a day 2 transfer because it's hard to say how they are dividing or if they continue to divide normally, etc. So I guess they usually wait until at least day 3 to transfer. This last one I did, I had a day 3 transfer w/ 2 embryos--only got 2 retreived. They waited to day 3 I was told that quality was pretty good and that everything was looking good. I was on slightly different meds this time around and I did acupuncture (which I definately think helped w/ quality and it was relaxing). sort of got pregnant--it was etopic.
I've had 2 of the of cycles cancelled in a row right before the egg transfer. Once there was no fertilization and that's why they decided to do ICSI for the next one. Then the 2nd time I got fertilization but when the waited to see how they were dividing, etc. they weren't dividing/growing normally & this re seemed to think if the 1st clinic had waited the extra day, then they would have said the same thing. But it's very devastating. I myself just cried a lot. You do put a lot of time and energy (and many put a lot of money) into this process and you try to do everything your told and then not to get to the e/t is such a letdown.
My thoughts and prayers are w/ you and your wife. make sure you ask lots of questions--write them down if necessary so you don't forget what to ask. I hope the next time you get positive results
On the 1st two cycles I had a day 2 transfer because the clinic I was at told me that if they get the exact number of eggs or less that they want to transfer on day 2. The current clinic I am going to doesn't usually like to do a day 2 transfer because it's hard to say how they are dividing or if they continue to divide normally, etc. So I guess they usually wait until at least day 3 to transfer. This last one I did, I had a day 3 transfer w/ 2 embryos--only got 2 retreived. They waited to day 3 I was told that quality was pretty good and that everything was looking good. I was on slightly different meds this time around and I did acupuncture (which I definately think helped w/ quality and it was relaxing). sort of got pregnant--it was etopic.
I've had 2 of the of cycles cancelled in a row right before the egg transfer. Once there was no fertilization and that's why they decided to do ICSI for the next one. Then the 2nd time I got fertilization but when the waited to see how they were dividing, etc. they weren't dividing/growing normally & this re seemed to think if the 1st clinic had waited the extra day, then they would have said the same thing. But it's very devastating. I myself just cried a lot. You do put a lot of time and energy (and many put a lot of money) into this process and you try to do everything your told and then not to get to the e/t is such a letdown.
My thoughts and prayers are w/ you and your wife. make sure you ask lots of questions--write them down if necessary so you don't forget what to ask. I hope the next time you get positive results
ME--42 DH 41
Hello,
Thank you to all for your wishes, we really need them as its really emotionally disturbing. I am 34 and my wife is 32 years old.
We went over the PGD report of all the embroyos today with our doctor. As it turns out that it is difficult to point the exact issue. The quality of egg is always not easy to determine and they did a ICSI based sperm injection to the eggs. When they send it for PGD, the reports indicated that all embroyos had defects making them unsuitable for transfer. Other than issues with the egg, we are being told that it can also be a sperm issue where the middle part of the sperm head is not replicating well after the fertilization of the egg. I did went through DNA fragmentation and also general sperm testing but everything came out well (volume, mortality, etc..). I enquired from the doctor if there are better labs or a way to test the sperm in more detail before it can be injected into the eggs but the answer seems to be no - sperm analysis is probably not as advanced and they typically pick a sperm for ICSI based on visual factors - which I am wondering if anyone know more about this?
Out doctor is saying to go ahead with another round of IVF (and my insurance may not cover it this time) and she would try to produce more eggs with high dosage which should improve chances and might give us 1-2 good embroyos usiong my sperm only. However I am confused if we are going to do the same thing again and what if after PGD everything comes abnormal again. One alternative is to use my sperm with a donor sperm for fertilization of new eggs and if none of mine fertilized, and donor's did then that would be a sure indication of issues with the sperm. Does anyone have experience with donor sperms? How does that work. I am however religiously not comfortable with the donor sperm idea but am trying to get more open minded as last resort.
I need guidence from folks on the board:
- We sure want to get a second opinion. Any recommendations in LA area? I can even consult remotely if there are remote doctors who can consult on phone and review our reports.
- Are you aware of any advanced labs which have sperm analysis capabilities and can do a better job ?
- What else can we do here?
Regards
Tony
Thank you to all for your wishes, we really need them as its really emotionally disturbing. I am 34 and my wife is 32 years old.
We went over the PGD report of all the embroyos today with our doctor. As it turns out that it is difficult to point the exact issue. The quality of egg is always not easy to determine and they did a ICSI based sperm injection to the eggs. When they send it for PGD, the reports indicated that all embroyos had defects making them unsuitable for transfer. Other than issues with the egg, we are being told that it can also be a sperm issue where the middle part of the sperm head is not replicating well after the fertilization of the egg. I did went through DNA fragmentation and also general sperm testing but everything came out well (volume, mortality, etc..). I enquired from the doctor if there are better labs or a way to test the sperm in more detail before it can be injected into the eggs but the answer seems to be no - sperm analysis is probably not as advanced and they typically pick a sperm for ICSI based on visual factors - which I am wondering if anyone know more about this?
Out doctor is saying to go ahead with another round of IVF (and my insurance may not cover it this time) and she would try to produce more eggs with high dosage which should improve chances and might give us 1-2 good embroyos usiong my sperm only. However I am confused if we are going to do the same thing again and what if after PGD everything comes abnormal again. One alternative is to use my sperm with a donor sperm for fertilization of new eggs and if none of mine fertilized, and donor's did then that would be a sure indication of issues with the sperm. Does anyone have experience with donor sperms? How does that work. I am however religiously not comfortable with the donor sperm idea but am trying to get more open minded as last resort.
I need guidence from folks on the board:
- We sure want to get a second opinion. Any recommendations in LA area? I can even consult remotely if there are remote doctors who can consult on phone and review our reports.
- Are you aware of any advanced labs which have sperm analysis capabilities and can do a better job ?
- What else can we do here?
Regards
Tony
I used to live in the LA area, but I am not really farmilar w/ re's in the area--you can always do a separate topic that asks about LA clinics, and perhaps you will get posts about people's experiences at different clinics in your area.
I have been a poor responder and w/ not so good egg quality, and the last cycle I did acupuncture, and still didn't get a lot of eggs, but they were pretty good quality and they looked good before going in. Ended in an etopic pregnancy, which I don't consider a total failure
I have been a poor responder and w/ not so good egg quality, and the last cycle I did acupuncture, and still didn't get a lot of eggs, but they were pretty good quality and they looked good before going in. Ended in an etopic pregnancy, which I don't consider a total failure
ME--42 DH 41
Something you may want to ask about is why your doctor did ICSI. If your counts are normal, they should try to let fertilization occur naturally. ICSI is a last resort if that does not occur or if there are male factor issues from the start. You may have a better shot if you let it happen naturally. I would get a 2nd opinion before going another round. Especially if Dr. is going to try to get more eggs with higher dose meds. I went through IVF and overstimulated. I had 16 eggs and the Dr. recovered and fertilized them but then canceled my transfer because of the overstimulation and high estrogen levels due to the number of eggs I had. I then had to pay $1000+ to freeze the embryos and am now looking at another $5000 to do a frozen cycle transfer. This is all in addition to the cost of IVF which we paid out of pocket!
Thank You - Some more Questions
Your insights are really good. I am currently fighting several unknowns and this is one of them. Interestingly, I was not aware that they are doing an ICSI and that was never told to us before.
- Does anyone know if doing an ICSI v/s not doing ICSI - which has better chances of fertilization especially when the sperm and DNA fragmantation reports have come good?
- Are there any ways to determine quality of eggs?
- Anyone knows of advanced sperm labs where they really know how to select the sperm for egg fertilization? We were told that most of this is visual analysis and there are no sophesticated techniques.
- I posted another thread for doctors in LA area.
Regards
Tony
- Does anyone know if doing an ICSI v/s not doing ICSI - which has better chances of fertilization especially when the sperm and DNA fragmantation reports have come good?
- Are there any ways to determine quality of eggs?
- Anyone knows of advanced sperm labs where they really know how to select the sperm for egg fertilization? We were told that most of this is visual analysis and there are no sophesticated techniques.
- I posted another thread for doctors in LA area.
Regards
Tony
-
JustinesBaby
- Regular
- Posts: 470
- Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 6:30 pm
PGD and ICSI
Hi Justine,
I checked with my doctor, they are saying that they mortality rate was low (36%) in one of the reports and they therefore did the ICSI to improve our chances. The other reason they told us they did ICSI as we had less eggs and that they would have improved the chances like that. Not sure if this was the best thing to do though after reading your email.
We had 10 eggs. 3 Did not fertilize as we were told. 5 did fertilize and were growing normally. Next day they told us that remaining 2 have also started responding but with less cells. So if we want to do PGD they would send 7 for PGD. PGD was our decision to make sure we are not implanting something abnormal. The doctor's office is telling us that it is mostly sperm in this case because even if visually the sperm looked good and had all the characters, the middle portion of sperm did not multiply the chromosomes and ran into a genetic challenge. Hard for us to digest - they are also saying that there are no advanced labs that can check the Sperm - which is what I want to really check.
Thanks for sharing your views. Any other insights from folks with similar experience would be appreciated.
Regards
Tony
I checked with my doctor, they are saying that they mortality rate was low (36%) in one of the reports and they therefore did the ICSI to improve our chances. The other reason they told us they did ICSI as we had less eggs and that they would have improved the chances like that. Not sure if this was the best thing to do though after reading your email.
We had 10 eggs. 3 Did not fertilize as we were told. 5 did fertilize and were growing normally. Next day they told us that remaining 2 have also started responding but with less cells. So if we want to do PGD they would send 7 for PGD. PGD was our decision to make sure we are not implanting something abnormal. The doctor's office is telling us that it is mostly sperm in this case because even if visually the sperm looked good and had all the characters, the middle portion of sperm did not multiply the chromosomes and ran into a genetic challenge. Hard for us to digest - they are also saying that there are no advanced labs that can check the Sperm - which is what I want to really check.
Thanks for sharing your views. Any other insights from folks with similar experience would be appreciated.
Regards
Tony
-
JustinesBaby
- Regular
- Posts: 470
- Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 6:30 pm