New Thread- How long before Chinese Medicine will help IVF?

[PK]

I would like to poll anyone out there who has had failed IVFs, then began Chinese therapy (either herbal remedies or accupuncture). How long after you began Chinese therapy did you see positive impact (BFP) through IVF?
I just failed my 2nd IVF, unexplained infertility though day 3 FSH is slightly high at 9 or close to 10. First cycle had 2 eggs retrieved, only 1 fertilized, and BFN. Second cycle, 2 eggs retrieved, both fertilized, BFN. Doc says my ovaries are lazy and that I am a poor responder and should consider donor eggs. We are considering donor eggs but nothing formal with Doc yet. I guess I am not ready to accept I cannot have anymore children with my own eggs.
I have an appointment on Monday with a Chinese doctor for accupuncture and herbal remedies evaluation.
With my clinic, I either have to start a new cycle as soon as my AF comes (in a week or so) or wait until April cause my clinic shuts down for a period of time to sanitize the place. I guess I am questioning myself whether or not to do another cycle right away or take a few months off.

Have you started accupuncture or herbal remedies after failing IVFs?

How long did you do above for?

Did it impact your next IVFs?

Any other advice regarding meds or Chinese therapies?

Thanks!

me 34 DH 39
secondary infertility-poor responder to high doses meds
6 months clomid with IUI- BFN
4 months gonal f with IUIs - BFN
1st IVF Nov 07-BFN
2nd IVF Jan 08-BFN
meds during 2nd IVF included 150 menopur, 375 gonal f, 200mg clomid and antagon once leading follicle reached 13

[Nadia123]

Pk

What type of protocol did your doctor use? Did he change protocols between IVF 1 and 2?

I would recommend getting a second opinion and trying different protocols. An FSH of 9 or 10 does not mean that you should give up and go to donor eggs. Read a book titled Inconceivable.

Nadia

[PK]

1st IVF protocol
3 weeks birth control
375 gonal f daily
150 menopur (2 vials) daily
microdose lupron in am and pm
only 3 follicles developed with extended protocol (like 12 days of stim)
2 eggs retrieved, one follicle empty
1 fertilized normally
"B" quality 3d ET with B meaning fair, not great, but good enough to ET

Took one month off with no meds

2nd IVF protocol
no birth control
375 gonal f daily
150 menopur daily
200mg clomid daily
antagon once daily after leading follicle reached 13
4 follicles developed
2 eggs on ET, other 2 were empty
both fertilized, one was delayed but natural
3 day transfer with one 6-cell and one 2-cell embryos

I have thought about getting a new physician, but from what I have read, I don't know of another protocol that would improve my response rates to produce more eggs on ET. Maybe I should still seek another opinion. Yesterday at my 2w test, I did request my records, just in case I wanted another opinion. I knew I would get a BFN and did yesterday...

[unexplained infertility]

PK-
I am young, fit and healthy but am also a poor responder and have poor quality eggs. I had 3 failed IVFs, but the 3rd one (test day was yesterday) was definitely different that the 2 previous ones, thanks to accupunture, I think.

My very first IVF was changed to IUI, because I had only 1 follicle.

Then my 1st full IVF I had 8 eggs, only 2 fertilized and were grade b quality (when A is the best). Then I started chinese herbs, accupunture once a week or less and yoga.
After 3 months of eastern medicine (not intensive though), I went through my 2nd IVF, and got 9 eggs, but again only 2 fertilzed and were grade c, and my estrogen level was lower.
Then 4 months break and accupunture 2x/week and just recently went through my 3rd IVF. They changed my protocol (Lupron, folistim and repronex before, now only lupron and folistim), and I had 19 eggs, out of which 14 fertilized. It gave me hope and belief in eastern medicine, however, I did not get pregnant, but I have 6 frozen embies after this cycle so we are trying FET in April.
If I use up all my embies, I think I will go for an egg donor. It is a hard decision, because I would love to have genetically my child, but on the other hand, I dont want my daughter to have crappy eggs like i do.

In general, eastern medicine needs time to show results. If you do intensive therapy (at least twice a week), 3 months should show improvement.

[Rinnie]

Hi PK

I just went through my first IVF. I got 10 follies, 7 eggs, 6 mature, 6 fertilized but on day 3 they were all c quality. Because I'm 42 I did PGD & 1 was ok on day 5-6 but didn't grow very well so we skipped ET.

I did a couple of sessions of acupuncture but was advised to take 3 months...really follow the program with herbs etc. and get my body strong and balanced. Chinese med is the most helpful for increasing follies and egg quality along with improving the uterus lining.

I think you owe it to yourself to really do a thorough Chinese program & give your body some time to adjust. Your belief that you will get pregnant is also important. 2 or 3 months before the next IVF is not going to hurt you.

Here's a great video on this website....#9 " women to women" at the end of the page. It's remarkable!

http://www.taoofwellness.com/news.htm

Take care

Rin

[LostGirl]

My clinic here in NYC said that doing acupuncture was good. And has been shown to help with egg quality and the lining, but under no circumstances take any herbs. They were adamant about it, saying they were dangerous and could jeopardize my cycle. Lostgirl

[LostGirl]

This could help you.
http://www.americanpregnancy.org/infert ... ncture.htm

[PK]

Thanks everyone for your posts, I appreciate you sharing your stories. I saw a TCM today and she did acunpuncture and prescribed me some herbs. I plan to follow this for a few months, take an IVF break, and then try again.
I am also getting a second opinion at another IVF clinic b/c I am not ready for donor eggs. I will consider donor eggs later, after making sure I've tried everything.
Thanks again.

[kbat]

I did acupuncture by a Chinese (from China) acupuncturist just before my 5th cycle. He has never suggested me doing herbs, and my clinic has told me to actually stay away from the herb--at least during my cycle--as they can be toxic to the embryos. W/ that said when looking into it, I was told to do acupuncture 1 time a week for about 3 months prior to my cycle. However, the acupunctist had me come 2 times a week for a little over a month. I did find that it helped. I have never acheived a pregnancy while doing fertility treatments--only one natural pregnancy that ended in a miscarriage before I did any treatments. this is the only one that I got pregnant for. (even though it ended as an etopic pregnancy). I decided to go back to the doctor. I asked him if I should do twice a week like before (I am expected to start next cycle in March if all goes well--maybe later if my dh changes jobs/insurance). And he told me to do once a week and then when I start injections to go twice a week. But if I start when i hope to start, I will have gone once a week for about 5 or 6 weeks--then twice a week for about a week or two.

I do think it helps. I got the best quality of eggs so far up to this point--and only after doing acupuncture. At least I know it can work--just have to have them stick in the right places....

I have used different protocals w/ each cycle. I did 3 cycles w/ one clinic then switched clinics to do #4 & #5 (not entirely happy w/ either clinic--that's a whole nother saga--but in the end dont' know if protocals would be any different) Additionally, because I seemed to have the best "success" w/ cycle #5, we are doing pretty much the same stuff including acupuncture (still no herbs). Only difference I saw was to use an estrogen patch. Oh, I did start a thread a while ago about doing Chinese herbs and it was sort of a mixed bag--some people thought it was a good idea and did it, while others seemed to say the same thing as my clinic--don't do it while you are cycling.

Supposedly yoga is supposed to be good too???

[PK]

Thanks Kbat! I think my plan is to take a break from IVF for 2-3 months, do the acupuncture 1/week and herbs (which really taste gross by the way). Then when I start a new IVF cycle, stop the herbs but continue the acupuncture and maybe raise it to 2x/week like you did. Hopefully that is enough to clean out my system, maybe respond better to the meds, and get better quality eggs.
I am looking forward to going to the new clinic next week for another opinion, but I've heard too that sometimes it is just a numbers game and the average number of IVF cycles is 5-6 so not really sure if it matters (I've only done 2 IVFs so far with plenty of IUIs before that). Although my doctor seems to be suggesting donor eggs now and I am not ready to go that route so hence I want a new opinion. Plus I wish the staff were a bit more caring - particulary my RE. I really feel like a number there, just there to pay my fees.
Hey -RI? I grew up in RI, went to URI, and left about 10 years ago to move to PA. Don't they have a clinic at the Women's hospital there?

[PK]

Thanks Kbat! I think my plan is to take a break from IVF for 2-3 months, do the acupuncture 1/week and herbs (which really taste gross by the way). Then when I start a new IVF cycle, stop the herbs but continue the acupuncture and maybe raise it to 2x/week like you did. Hopefully that is enough to clean out my system, maybe respond better to the meds, and get better quality eggs.
I am looking forward to going to the new clinic next week for another opinion, but I've heard too that sometimes it is just a numbers game and the average number of IVF cycles is 5-6 so not really sure if it matters (I've only done 2 IVFs so far with plenty of IUIs before that). Although my doctor seems to be suggesting donor eggs now and I am not ready to go that route so hence I want a new opinion. Plus I wish the staff were a bit more caring - particulary my RE. I really feel like a number there, just there to pay my fees.
Hey -RI? I grew up in RI, went to URI, and left about 10 years ago to move to PA. Don't they have a clinic at the Women's hospital there?