The Over 40 Crowd

[summerbaby]

catharine - so easy for me to say, I know - but keep up your pma and think about how happy you'll be to get that bfp - all the negative what ifs don't really matter right now - just the positive vibes that you've worked so hard to muster just for times like this--there are 5 little embies in there right now who need you to think about them and how nicely they are growing inside. That was so nice of your clinic to call to see how you were! I think that is really great and so thoughtful.
And stay off that scale!...
xx Amy

[Sonix]

Just to let you know… my lining hasn’t improved. 7,2mm was the best measurement my doc could get. The phone line with the clinic was bad so I texted them but haven’t had a reply yet. I think acu and yoga are helping and there’s not much else I can do but wait…

I’m not quite sure about the connection between cysts and lining but I think that ovarian cysts cause lower oestradiol levels which would then have an effect on lining development.

Good luck to everyone …thinking of you all.

Hugs
Sonia xxx

[chriss]

Hi Sonia,
Let us know when you hear back from them. Just today I was talking to my RE about lining and he said that there was so much hype around thickness. He believes that the most important thing is not the thickness of the lining, but something else... he talked about the lining needing to have three layers of some sort, I'm not sure how to say it medically, he used a word... tri-something or other. Do you know anything else about the lining besides the thickness? Really want this to work out for you.

-chriss

[Sonix]

Catharine Hoping and praying for a strong BFP tomorrow!

Hi Amy – not long til your first scan – thinking of you and hoping you have survived the storms OK and are having a relaxing weekend.

Hi Chriss – How was your follie scan yesterday? Fingers crossed that all is going well for you… Yes, I’ve heard about the three layers and can confirm that my lining has these. My doc pointed it out and I saw it on the screen so many thanks for reminding me about that.

I finally got to talk to my contact at the clinic yesterday lunchtime. They are OK about my lining at around 7mm and are now waiting on how the donors progress in their cycles. So if my lining holds out over the next few days there’s still hope. The suspense continues! Yesterday evening was the dance show I was involved in which didn’t go too well but was a few hours of distraction at least. Yesterday I was convinced it was all over but today I’ve no negative signs, just lots of twinges and mild pains from all the estrogen but no AF cramps or spotting yet. Think I’m going a bit mad, like on a 2ww… My next scan will be Monday.

I’ll try to catch up again soon…

Love and PMA to everyone
Sonia
xxx

[Catharine]

Good Sunday morning all

Sonia-your post was so upbeat. Sending all that upbeat attitude back at you as you await for your next scan and news on the donors. PMA I'm sure participating in the dance 'recital' was worth every once. Would love to see pix if you are so brave to share;)

Chriss-how you holding up there hun? Thinking of you and your DH. Keep exuding that wonderful PMA.

Amy-how are you? stimming now? sending you some of that PMA and relaxation vibes your way as well.

JenB thinking of you. Looking forward to hearing some news.

So, enough suspense. Friday I put a call into the clinic because my feet calves and hamstrings were cramping like crazy. I was worried about it being a sign of OHSS. They just told me to eat banannas for potassium. Sadly I don't much like banannas. Fortunately, I already take pottassium supplements therefore I popped a few extra. Have to be a bit careful as one can alter the heart rhythm with excess potassium, can be very dangerous. Yesterday was the worst day of the 2ww. I had all my symptoms of AF, just no AF. My weight continues to fluctuate---did I mention I have to monitor this and the circumfrance of my belly as the numbers can be indicators of onset of OHSS. I've been dreading the evening PIO shots. This go around they seem to hurt more than I recall from the last cycles. My body hasn't made any pregnancy changes just changes synonymous with the arrival of AF. I went to work this morning before my blood draw, then DH and I went to our usual spot after wards, Waffle House. Then home for a nap. I got an early call back from the clinic; my mind just played horrible games on me whith the call so early.
But thankfully the answer was BFP hCG level 311. Restest on Tuesday.
This is good news. Sadly I had done too good a job preparring myself for the bad news. Some of my thoughts following the several moments of elated ones were, hmm that means I won't be playing soccer this season, nor gaelic football, no more running. Isn't that crazy I got the best news and here I was thinking of the things I can not do for several months. Once I get the go ahead I'll pick up swimming. That's relaxing and low weight baring should be fine for someone with ants in her pants,aye.

Wishing everyone PMA.
Catharine

[Sonix]

Hey Catharine – congratulations to you and DH! That’s fantastic news! I don’t know much about HCG levels but that number sounds amazing. Hope the next days and weeks are as stress-free as possible. Take good care of yourself and enjoy! Please stay around and keep us posted.

Amy and Chriss – thinking of you and looking forward to reading your updates.

JenB – WELCOME HOME! Congrats on being PUPO. Sending you relaxing vibes and baby dust to start off your 2ww. Fingers crossed tight… xxx

And now for some not so good news, I’m afraid. (I think I mustered up all the PMA I had left yesterday to write that post.) Today heavy spotting has started on my 18th cycle day(!) so looks like that’s it again for this cycle. I’ve no idea why this keeps happening and just have to keep searching for answers… I’m not ready yet to give up but am losing hope we will ever even get to transfer …

Love
Sonia xxx

[chriss]

Sonia,
So sorry to hear about your news re: lining. There must be a reason. I am thinking of you. I'm goingt o ask all of the RE's that I know and see if they have any ideas for you. Keep looking forward and keep praying. You are in my thoughts and prayers.


Catharine, WOW! Congratulations! That's the best news ever! Keeping my fingers crossed for you for next BETA. So very happy for you. Who cares about soccer and running... you are going to have a baby! Yahoo!


Went for scan today, looks like I have 5 - 6 follies. I take the trigger tonite. ER on Tuesday. I have a question, I may post it as a new thread. I recall reading somewhere that even before retrieval, the follicles/eggs are sensitive to smoky atmosheres, etc. I am supposed to take my class to the indoor pool tomorrow and the room is so highly toxic with chlorine. Even hurts my eyes to be in there. That will be the day before retrieval, should I avoid going? Can the fumes be harmful? I am so paranoid.

Much love & support, -chriss

[Catharine]

Hey again to all you lovely ladies-
In my hast to write the good news I forgot to thank everyone for all your positive support , it really really means so much.

Sonia-I'm so sorry to learn the latest. Try to find some energy to muster through. There must be an answer. I will keep you in my prayers.

Chriss-sounds like some wonderful news with more follies good luck with the trigger and retrieval. RE: pool; sounds like it is already weighing heavy on your mind and for that reason alone I would avoid it to keep you and your mental state at peace unless your RE says otherwise and puts you at ease. IMHO, there is no need for added stress worrying about [the excess fumes]. Worry alone can be detrimental. Try to remain as relaxed and positive as possible. This from the woman who just stressed the last week of her 2ww certain she had a BFN, only to be so pleasantly surprised to be wrong.

DH, the dogs and I went for a two hour walk at our local horse park on such a lovely day. Lots of people were out to enjoy the lovely weather. Looks like the south is to be hit with another rain storm in the next 48h. We really need it for we have a water deficit of ~19in in our local resevoir. I can handle walking in the park as exercise. It's really relaxing and the dogs get exercis too, a real plus.

Thanks again for all the support.
Catharine

[summerbaby]

congratulations Catharine on your BFP! wonderful news!! and the dogs will be appreciative of all the extra walks they'll be getting due to your lack of being able to play contact sports in the coming months!! I'm really so very happy for you and DH. Keep us posted on your next beta and throughout the coming months!

chriss - good news about your follies! I have to agree with Catharine, if you are nervous about a trip to the pool, then postpone it -- you'll only be thinking about if this is harming your follies, then that can't be good for your PMA -- do what you think is best for you - your students might be disappointed, but they'll understand. Best of luck for a smooth ER on Tuesday! Relax and enjoy your shot-free day!

sonia - so very sorry to hear about the early onset of AF. So nice of chriss to ask for information for you to see if she can shed some light -- I'm sure you and DH are very disappointed - I really can't believe it myself. You will one day soon get to transfer, I am sure of it. Don't give up on your dream.
Hope you guys weathered the storm well this weekend.

jenb - hope all went well with your transfer and that your snowbabies are getting nice and cozy -- hope the 2ww goes by quickly! take good care of yourself.

I'm off to the RE on Tuesday. Do hope any snow that is coming stays away till I'm safely back home...still taking Decapeptyl till further notice...AF came and went. had terrible cramping that woke me up one night - but all seemed to be fine...Do hope everything is fine inside and that I'll leave on Tuesday with some sort of stimming plan that I'll be able to stay on till ER/ET...that would just make my week!.My blood pressure has even been "normal" - I'm hoping that is a good sign...

hello to LuAnne, Tammy, Yasmina, Andrea, pricecake, joanne, bigj, anna and anyone I might have missed.

have a great week! xx Amy

[children]

sonia,

I am getting very angry at your RE. can this stupid unwanted AF be prevented in any way, such as up the progesterone dose or something? - you did use progesterone in the mean time of taking estrogen right? you are doing DE cycles, it's upsetting if you never get to transfer anything into your belly. I'll say that you can question your RE A LOT next time you see him/her. Tell him/her that you internet friends demand a workable protocol next time! by the way, could you let me know what protocol you were using in the last few cycles? i had done few frozen cycles. as far as i understand, it should be very similar to DE cycles in preparation of uterine lining.

Catherine,

congrats! do update your progress.

Everyone else, good luck on whatever you are doing!

Yasmina

[Sonix]

Chriss – great , you have more follies! Hope you managed to get out of that session at the pool and are feeling relaxed again. Good luck at ER tomorrow. My fingers are crossed for you. xxx

Amy – have a good trip to your RE tomorrow. Looking forward to your news about that long-awaited stimming plan.

Thank you everyone for your kind and understanding words. I’m sure too, there must be an answer. Any ideas/advice from you wise women to help shed some light on this are more than welcome and much appreciated.
I’ve been searching the web but haven’t found any similar cases or clues yet. My doc for DE treatment has years of experience but doesn’t seem to have had anyone who has not responded to the changed/increased protocol. I am waiting for news from him on how to proceed. Some blood tests and more closer monitoring of hormone levels, maybe? The clinic is abroad and my gynaecologist doing the scans here is not a RE so it’s difficult for me to get advice here.

Yasmina, you mentioned progesterone. Do you know at what stage it can be taken in preparation for transfer? On my protocol progesterone is started on the day of ER of the donor. Here’s a summary of my last 3 cycles:

1) Sept. 07: (0,1 Decapeptyl from day 21 of DR cycle)
Transfer cycle: 4mg Progynova from day 1, increased to 6mg on day 20
Lining: day 10 = 8,8mm, day 13 = 9,2mm, day 18 = 6,2mm, day 21 = 5,1mm
spotting from day 19, AF on day 20

2) Dec. 07: (0,1 Decapeptyl from day 21 of DR cycle)
Transfer cycle: 4mg Progynova from day 1, increased to 5mg on day 15
Lining: day 9 = 6,8mm, day 12 = 8,6mm, day 19 = 7mm
spotting from day 19, AF on day 21

3) Feb. 08: (without Decapeptyl)
Transfer cycle: 6mg Progynova from day 1, increased to 7mg on day 12 and to 8mg on day 16
Lining: day 9 = 8mm, day 12 = 7mm, day 15 = 7,2mm
spotting from day 16/17, AF on her way…

It seems that my lining does develop to a respectable thickness but starts reducing again too quickly and just does not respond to an increase of oestradiol. Since last summer, when I had problems with the length of my cycles I have been on cyclo-progynova to regulate, but my cycles somehow seem now to be too short!?

Thanks again for all your support.
Love and hugs to Catharine, JenB, Anna, Tammy, LuAnne, Andrea, Yasmina, BigJ, Pricecake, Joanna and everyone else here on this thread.

Sonia xxx

[children]

Sonia,

I am sorry that I did not check back on earlier and I hope that I can still catch your appointment with your RE tomorrow?/today?

I do respect all doctors in the world and I believe that your RE is not stupid. And I also believe that trusting your caregiver is very important to ensure your success. However, this does not prevent you from ASKING QUESTIONS. I know that European doctors tend to go with natural cycle, they use as little hormonal help as possible. However, the E2 that you used was not lower than American doctors, I mean it was not natural anyway. The whole ivf process is not natural, why not adding progesterone into your protocol earlier to keep your lining for a longer period of time?!

In all of my frozen cycles, I had suppression period, which involved taking birth control pills for 21 days and about 14 days of Lupron shots after that. At the end of suppression, the lining and E2 levels were checked, they were (should be) thin and low, if not, the cycle would be cancelled. This is a long protocol which is better for advance aged women and it gives better response to E2 stimulation. Once a thin lining (less than 1 mm? not so sure here) and low E2 level (less than 10? 20?) are confirmed, E2 will be used in a increasing amount (from 0.1 mg to 0.4 mg over a period of 20 days, I used patches on skin) to stimulate the lining. In the mean time, I also used low level of lupron to keep the stimulation slow and steady on the first of 6 days of E2 stimulation. Once 8 mm is reached, I used progesterone at day 20 of stimulation (please notice as I used very low level of E2 for a slow stimulation, the time of reaching high E2 level and thick lining is longer). I usually do progesterone (both suppositories and oil injection) 4~5 days prior to transfer and continue to do it until pg test. If it is positive, I needed to take it until the end of trimester.

Having studied your protocols, I think that you had no suppression period, and your stimulation period was aggressive, this could help reaching desired lining thickness fast but in the mean time, it may cause short cycles.

OK, sorry for being so aggressive myself. Please ask our RE whether 1) do a longer protocol - it is important for us advanced aged women to keep a slow and steady stimulation, which requires long protocol (suppression and then slow stimulation); 2) use progesterone 5 days prior to embryo transfer.

Anyway, my job responsibility is to search for workable protocols, I am very upset if knowing something is wrong and continuing to keep being wrong. All your cycles showed very similar patterns, that alone should tell your RE to change something other than just boost your E2 level, which could be wrong direction to go, anyways.

Lastly, do ask your RE A LOT OF QUESTIONS. Good luck on your appointment.

Yasmina

[summerbaby]

hi, have to take more time to read through all of Yasmina's trusted advice -- and catch up on what is going on -- just wanted to post quickly to say that I am back from the RE -- the snow held out till I pulled back into my driveway this afternoon! lucky me -- dry roads there and back --
everything looks good and I'm ready to continue with Decapeptyl, then start with stimms (Puregon & Menopur) on the 14th, 1st scan on the 20th, with ER planned for the week after Easter - which is great. My DH will be home from his business trip and I'm on holiday...I'm thrilled to be on my way!

chriss - how did your ER go? when is your transfer scheduled? thinking of you.

catharine - any news?

thinking of you, sonia. xx

warmest regards to all reading. I will check in again soon - xx Amy

[Sonix]

Amy – glad to hear you are back safely – was thinking of you driving past today and it just started snowing heavily here an hour ago! So pleased that you’ve got the go-ahead with your schedule. Well done!

Chriss – hope all went well at ER and you are resting back at home soon. xxx

Yasmina, thank you for checking my protocols and taking the time to put together that information for me. It’s now getting clearer and I have a better idea which direction I need to keep asking.

I forgot to write that decapeptyl (GnRH analogue) was used on the first 2 cycles for suppression and is injected daily from day 21 of the DR cycle until the day of ER. It’s supposed to have the same effect as the nasal spray Synarella but is easier to dose. Do you know if that is similar to lupron? I was on cyclo-progynova (instead of bcp) because of my low oestrogen levels but this might have had the wrong effect too.

In my list I got it wrong with the progynova on the first 2 cycles. I started on day one with 2mg and increased to 4mg on the 6th day. But I still think you are right that suppression was not long enough and the stimulation period was probably too fast.

Also maybe I should try the E2 patches instead of progynova tablets. Barcelona seems to have good success with them and my gynaecologist mentioned that he prescribes them a lot too. On my 2nd attempt I was told to use them in addition to the tablets on the 19th day but by then it was too late. Were your E2 levels checked regularly throughout and how often was your lining checked?

Progesterone is usually started on the day of egg retrieval which is probably about 3-5 days before transfer. In my case the timing would also be somewhat easier for a FET cycle. Availability of donor eggs is irregular and so trying to coordinate my cycle with donor cycles makes the whole situation a lot more complicated. I know that my clinic had 2 or 3 donors and was so hoping it would all fall into place this time but that chance is over now and I have to focus on the next try. But we are now determined to get a sound working schedule before setting off again.

My contact texted me today to say that after further consultation with the doc, they will send an email. I’m preparing an email too and will contact my former RE here in Germany for some advice as soon as I have everything written up. Luckily I have some time off work at the moment, which of course was planned for transfer. We’re now trying to book a long weekend away skiing ... and as from today I’m off the meds again so will be drowning my sorrows in a big glass of wine this evening…

Thanks again, Yasmina, sending big hugs to you and Eloise.

Sonia xxx

p.s. no need to apologize for being aggressive. You are right that we have to keep asking lots of questions…

[teachertam]

Hello Ladies:

Catharine: Congrats on your wonderful news!

Sonia: Hang in there. Yasmina is right to have you question your RE. I sure questioned mine after my first failed IVF. We met with the RE and the Embryologist and I had several pages of questions to ask.

We celebrated Andrew's 1st birthday with a party on Saturday. It was a lot of fun. He really enjoyed himself.

Hello to everyone else. I have so much to do.

Take care all,
Tammy