Low responder vs. poor responder

birdie · Post by **birdie** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 9:40 pm

Hi everyone. I am currently waiting to begin a third cycle after two BFN's. During the first cycle, 8 eggs were retrieved, 4 fertilized, and three made it to transfer. During the second cycle, 9 eggs were retrieved, 7 fertilized, and 4 made it to transfer. We were going to do a shared risk program but the cost turned out to be too much due to the fact that I was referred to as a "poor responder". This was confusing because previously the doctors had told me I was a low resonder, not poor. Not to get hung up on semantics, but what exactly is the difference between a low responder and a poor responder? For those of you who have been labeled as such, what were your experiences? Any success stories? This label worries me because I know that response tends to decrease with each cycle and my age certainly isn't a help either. My husband and I aren't ready to give up yet but I can't help but feel negative about my prospects. I'd love to hear about anyone in a similar situation.

Heisable · Post by **Heisable** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 10:39 pm

I was labeled a low responder. Matter of fact so low that after 11 days of stim shots, I only made one follicle. My follicle had an egg and my egg successfully fertilized. My ET consisted of my one 6 celled embryo at 3 days. I felt discouraged and that things didnt looks so good for me but my husband and my dad remained optimistic and hopeful. I on the other hand worried so much and all I could do was pray and ask God for help. My RE said I had a less than 5% chance of success. Right now I am 6w2d pregnant....

birdie · Post by **birdie** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 10:55 pm

Wow, that certainly is encouraging. Congratulations! Was this your first cycle? A lot of clinics would have canceled a cycle with only one follicle but I have heard of others that will go through with it if that's what the patient wants. It's good that you did!

Heisable · Post by **Heisable** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 11:08 pm

Yes it was my first cycle. And my RE said that if I was a cash paying client, he would have suggested canceling....but since I had insurance and my copay was only $2500 he said we should continue and hope for the best. I actually thought about it, but my husband was like "no way, we've come this far, lets go for it" and I would cry and say "but we only have one follicle" and he would say "all we need is one". We nicknamed him the little follicle that could. Every step of the way I would get worried that we wouldnt make it past the next hurdle (the follicle wouldnt have and egg, the egg wouldnt fertilize, the embryo wouldnt make it to transfer, etc etc.) but by the grace of God, we made it...my first U/S is on 10/21...I'll keep you posted....baby dust to you.!!

wonderce · Post by **wonderce** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 11:45 pm

Hi Birdie,
I think I may also be considered a low responder, but I'm not sure of the difference between low and poor. I'm currently on my 2nd try with my first IVF attempt since I didn't respond well enough to go through last cycle. I think due to my age, they had to increase my meds to the max amount and now I'm responding a lot better. What are you taking and what's your dosage? I'd love to compare our protocols. I'm on 450cc of Follistim, 10 ccLupron and 10cc low dose HCG. I've been on the stims for 10 days now.

Heisable, congratulations! That's wonderful news and very encouraging to hear. So all it takes is one good follie. I like your comparison to the little follie that could. : ) Best wishes to you.

birdie · Post by **birdie** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 1:18 pm

Hi Wonderce,

Since I haven't started my cycle yet i'm not sure just what the protocol will be but I think I will be taking Follitism. My first cycle I took 450cc Gonal f, 150 cc Menopur, and 10 cc Lupron. The second cycle was a flare using Microlupron, Bravelle, and Menopur but didn't produce the results that my doctor hoped for. I'm a little nervous (well, a lot) about the next cycle. I worry about the large amounts of medication I am injecting into my body and what it is going to do to me. I don't know if I can handle another negative but I feel like I have to try or I will regret it later. People say, "Oh you gotta have a positive attitude or else this won't work" but it's easy to say that when you've never had to deal with a negative. I've found myself fantasizing a lot about adoption lately and I'm finding the concept easier to accept the more I think about it. I've kind of taken the "I don't care if it fails attitude" because I'm afraid to care too much. Some say I may be jeopardizing my chances with this attitude but I think it's just a protective mechanism. I was really depressed during my last cycle and I just don't want that to happen again.

wonderce · Post by **wonderce** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:57 pm

Birdie,
I've heard of the other meds you've used, but I've pretty much been on Follistim, Lupron and HCG since I've been doing the injectables. I can totally understand your hesitation about injecting so many meds into your body. I actually wonder the same thing, and although I don't believe there are any studies to show there are long term ill effects of using these meds (such as ovarian cancer, etc.), it's still a little scary. I think I just continue to do it because I want a baby so badly. It sounds like you are thinking of adoption lately. I think that is a wonderful thing! My husband is adopted and we've briefly discussed that idea if we cannot conceive with ART. My ER should be coming up this week, and I'm already so nervous and trying not to get my hopes up too much. I can relate to your attitude of keeping up a protective barrier so you aren't dealing with such disappointment if it is not successful. I want to be positive but was also very depressed when I didn't respond to the meds last cycle, so I can't imagine how hard it is to go through the ER and ET and still a BFN. I've even thought of starting to see a counselor to help me deal with some of these emotions. It's easy for people to say things about us dealing with infertility, but they don't know what it's like. I have heard that it can often take several attempts for IVF to be a success, so maybe this 3rd time will be the one for you.

birdie · Post by **birdie** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 4:41 pm

I don't think it's really been proven one way or another that these meds can cause long term damage. I've heard reports that there is a higher risk of developing ovarian cancer with them. I figured though that if all this results in me having a baby, the risk is worth it. I could develop cancer anyway as it does run in my family and it would be hard to know what caused it. I am thinking about adoption because I'm a planner and I like to have all my options laid out in front of me ahead of time. My husband, while open to the idea, is not ready to start thinking about it yet because he wants to focus on ivf right now. I think for me it's also another way to soften the blow of being disappointed again, to know there is another option out there to grow our family. ER and ET is nerve wracking but the 2ww is the absolute worst. I'm not trying to scare you, just giving you a little warning. If you feel you need to talk to a counselor, I say go for it. You're right that no one can understand these emotions unless they've gone through this themselves and that's why these boards are so great. We need all the help we can get during this process and anything that will make you feel better is a good thing.

wonderce · Post by **wonderce** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 10:29 pm

Yes, we are kind of at the same point with the adoption idea. My DH wants to take it one step at a time and give the IVF a fair shot. We have only paid for one cycle, so I'm already thinking of trying the shared risk plan next if this one doesn't work. Not good for me to be thinking negative already but I'm a planner like you, so just want to be prepared. Thanks for the heads up on the 2ww. I can imagine it is tough and probably the longest 2 weeks of your life. When will you start your stims? I agree that this board is wonderful and we can all be here to support each other. I only joined just recently but have been trying at this for a few years and wish I had found this site sooner. Are you on any of the other threads?

birdie · Post by **birdie** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:16 am

Shared risk is a good idea if you plan on giving it a couple more tries (let's hope you don't have to). I don't think it's going to work out for us but there is a program called ARC where you can apply. Type in "ARC fertility" on the web and you'll find it. I'm not sure when my next cycle will start because my insurance is due to change and I want to know if and how much ivf coverage I'll have under the new plan before starting. It could be a couple of months before the new plan kicks in so I'm here now just biding my time. My advice for the 2ww is keep as busy as possible so you can minimize worrying. It's impossible not to worry but if you keep your mind occupied with other things you won't go as crazy. There are a bunch of threads about the 2ww where you can rant and commiserate with others who are going through it at the same time. It sounds like you're almost ready for your retrieval so best of luck to you! Let's hope this is it for you!

wonderce · Post by **wonderce** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 4:28 pm

Thanks for the advice on the shared risk program and 2ww. I am definitely learning a lot from all of the wonderful girls on this site that have been through IVF already. It's very fortunate that you may have some insurance coverage with your new plan. I've had none so far and it has really taken a toll on our finances. The countless medications, numerous IUI's and laparoscopic surgery before we even started the expense of IVF. It will all be worth it in the end though, when and if it works. I wish you the best with your next cycle and will keep all of us in my prayers!

Low responder vs. poor responder

Low responder vs. poor responder

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