IMSI = SUPER ICSI!!

Discussion forum for those particularly interested in IVF and embryo transfer including frozen embryo transfer.
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Tris
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IMSI = SUPER ICSI!!

Post by Tris »

Hi girls...I just wanted to share this info which is VERY IMPORTANT TO US!!! Has anyone heard of IMSI??? I am based in Spain and it has arrived here so Im sure it is also in the US, UK, etc....it is what they call "Super ICSI" and it was even featured in the news here (equal to CNN) 2 days ago since they say it could really HELP better embryo quality! Its this new machine that can magnify the sperm 20 TIMES more than ICSI thus increasing the chances of a viable pregnancy with less miscarriages, etc. I think the web will tell you more. They even call it a "breakthrough" which "will help many couples get closer to their dreams!."

Like with me, for example, our problem is male factor...Ive done 5 IVF´s and 4 out of them I got a BFP! I am actually BFP again now as I write this but of course im waiting again since I mc´d last year and had an ectopic this year!, etc., etc. and after research we are convinced that the quality of DH sperm chosen during ICSI is still not the best even if it looks it with the old machine! It is chosen like in a lottery then, so even if I get a BFP, it doesnt form a perfect embryo that continues to grow into a healthy baby! So I never reach the delivery stage.... Since with ICSI, the lab tech still cannot see the REAL sperm quality! ....So sadly, a rise in miscarriages or IVF failures (even if there is always fertilization) for me :(

So in case something happens to this pg (knock on wood), I have contacted a clinic that offers IMSI where they will choose the sperm close up! almost "face to face" as what they say and thus increasing the chances that it will fretilize my eggs better :) I mean if this technology is availbale now, why still do ICSI??? It is obsolete then. Although I think not every clinic offers this yet since it is pretty new and the machine they say is very expensive (in Spain only 4 clinics have it and Thank God one is close to me)......so the cost is more around €6,000++ here which would still make ICSI cheaper. But wouldnt it be worth it to just go for IMSI if it really is "60% more effective" than ICSI?? We will all save time and money in the long run....

Any comments or insights or anything youve read or heard regarding IMSI in your country please add on to this...its really GOOD NEWS in the field of IVF which we should all research and be aware of......also something to consider before we all uselessly spend again :wink:
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to_have_fun08
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Post by to_have_fun08 »

Tris - I haven't heard of this before. I will have to do some research. It does sound promising.


Chris
Chris 40- DH 41
6 IVFs Cycles - BFN's
DE Cycle 2/2011 -BFP Jacob born 11/11/11

FET 7/2012 - BFP - Kaylee due 4/3/13

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Liam'sMommy
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Post by Liam'sMommy »

Thanks for sharing. I have not heard of it but i will be looking into it that is for sure. Thanks again!!
Kelly 42
DH 50
DS 11/03/06
Tris
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Post by Tris »

I have an appointment this Thurs in one clinic that does IMSI and I will update what Ive learned here :) In the meantime please check out these websites which will explain what IMSI stands for, why its better against ICSI/IVF, etc., etc.:

1. http://www.zeiss.com/c12567be0045acf1/C ... c04f7c61c1

2. http://humrep.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/co ... l/20/1/185

I just wanted to add that SPAIN they say is one of the leading places in the WORLD that constantly studies and treats infertility. Example Barcelona leads here like in DEUX clinic and CRHI...they already have this technology (IMSI) and so many are already lining up to do it. Thats why it is even always in the news here and thank God we were listening at that time or I too would never have known...It should be in the states and other places of course but its pretty new. Since maybe Spain and the EU in general is really a place with excellent medical care...they are constantly updating. So actually I see more info on this in Spanish and even the chats here, similar to this one, talk about it already....

So imagine when DH submits his sperm during IVF treatment, millions are in that 1 cup and if the woman produces lets say 15 eggs average (many produce even less or none at all or not of good quality), then only 15 spermatoids are chosen!!! and with ICSI, they just see which ever moves better, etc. from afar!! so technically with ICSI the lab still takes a gamble, RISKS, choosing whatever just LOOKS BETTER!!! Out of that 1 million, the hundreds of thousands remaining or not chosen may contain the more gentically viable sperm we need to complete a healthy embryo ....it could be wasted with ICSI!

In the program that also explained that IMSI allows less error by allowing the lab techs to see the sperms genetic make-up through a close-up! and choose those, out of the millions, that have perfect or almost perfect structure. Again imagine there are millions of spermatoids to choose from and IMSI can help eliminate wasting the good ones...ITS REALLY HOPE FOR US! During the broadcast, they even showed us how close they can go...we were actually seeing the top of the sperms head and all around it....not just its motility, etc. its actual make-up. They even showed the supposedly "bad ones" with fragments, not so good morphology, etc. and these move well and look good from afar so with ICSI these non-viable sperms can even be chosen!

When I had my mc´s and I had them when the baby had a heart beat already, my HCG level was going up well, everything seemed OK!... I had the embryos studied and the cause is really that the embryo is "missing something" that will not allow it to form well and continue!!! Inspite of this they always TRY to attach hence my BFP´s so i know theres HOPE...I just need that perfect mixture of egg and sperm (Im 37 by the way-DH 32). Many docs have told me already that its "probably the sperm" and after 5 IVF´s I only got to freeze 2 and only now in the last cycle! Ive been advised that again the sperm, probably, didnt fertilize the others (I always got 13 to 15 eggs at least) so Im even lucky to get eggs transferred!!! ...Many women think its because of them...too old eggs, etc. but imaginhe if the sperm is also not good?? This technology can also help donors of course!! In Spain 6 out of 10 men have problems with their sperm! which makes it harder for a woman to concieve...many are fragmented for example, so it cannot help an egg form well ever.

So yes research and inquire...I am so passionate about this and really want to share because maybe this will really help many of us especially those that have had many failed pregnancies...BFP´s but no deliveries! or even those that never got a BFP, inspite of numerous IVF´s, since the docs here also say that if the sperm has a minute problem, it is also likely that the embryo will not even attach properly!!! Lucky those who have been helped by ICSI of course, then they did hit the jackpot from random selection, but if we can have something that will allow our doctors to make no mistakes or very minimal ones by choosing the right or almost perfect fertilizers (sperms) :) then of course we shouldnt pass on the the opportunity...

Ill update what the actual clinic says this Thurs so its really first hand info....til then....Enjoy your day!
:)
y_ghazaly
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Re: IMSI = SUPER ICSI!!

Post by y_ghazaly »

hi there :)

finally , someone heard of this imsi thing. yes my dh & i r also attempting an icsi with imsi trial in jan 2011. dh is an excellent candidate due 2 severe male factor. we're really putting a lot of hopes on this since we had 3 failed icsi's b4 , all BPN & the doctors concluded that no implantation happens due 2 chromosomal defects in the sperm despite how well they may look (it's called sperm dna fragmentation).

i'll keep everyone updated as soon as i have more info.

good luck 2 us all in this tedious journey. :)
annashope
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Re: IMSI = SUPER ICSI!!

Post by annashope »

wow this is promising thanks for bringing this up
Me 30
DH 30
DS 10 from previous marriage
ttc 5 yrs, Cervical cancer- in remission
IVF# 1 BFP m/c at 7 weeks
FET Nov 2010 BFN
IUI #5 12/02 BFP! Paul NIcholas
April 2012 Natural BFP on baseline to start cycling-- beta 4/11 35 beta 4/13 121

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TammyS
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Re: IMSI = SUPER ICSI!!

Post by TammyS »

Sweet! This is awesome news. Thank you.
Me~42/DH~48
3 IUI
IVF 1~1.28.08 Zach
IVF 2~4.5.10 M/C
IVF 3~8.6.10 BFN
IVF 4~9.5.10 M/C
IVF 5~10.30.10 BFN
IVF 6~11.29.10 M/C
IVF 7~2.3.11 M/C
IVF 8~Cancelled
End of the road

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to_have_fun08
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Re: IMSI = SUPER ICSI!!

Post by to_have_fun08 »

I have heard of HRSS which is High resolution ICSI. Its supposed to have extra magnification also, don't know if it is 20x more its been awhile since I researched it. My clinic does this with no extra charge.
Chris 40- DH 41
6 IVFs Cycles - BFN's
DE Cycle 2/2011 -BFP Jacob born 11/11/11

FET 7/2012 - BFP - Kaylee due 4/3/13

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Zoelaura
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Re: IMSI = SUPER ICSI!!

Post by Zoelaura »

Hi! After 3 unsuccessful ICSI, we want to do IMSI. DH has oligozoospermia cytogenetic factor. We live in Washington DC. Do you know what clinic in the USA does IMSI? I think New Hope Fertility Center in NY does it. Are there other clinic nearby that do IMSI? How much is it? Is it covered by comprehensive insurance plans?
Thank you!
riogirl71
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Re: IMSI = SUPER ICSI!!

Post by riogirl71 »

That is awesome news for us MF girls!!!!!!!!!!!!
me 39 + DH 46 low mot - chemo
#3 IVF Lost one twin at 8 wks
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#2 IVF May 2010 Ectopic
#1 IVF
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moorebaby
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Re: IMSI = SUPER ICSI!!

Post by moorebaby »

y_ghazaly wrote:hi there :)

finally , someone heard of this imsi thing. yes my dh & i r also attempting an icsi with imsi trial in jan 2011. dh is an excellent candidate due 2 severe male factor. we're really putting a lot of hopes on this since we had 3 failed icsi's b4 , all BPN & the doctors concluded that no implantation happens due 2 chromosomal defects in the sperm despite how well they may look (it's called sperm dna fragmentation).

i'll keep everyone updated as soon as i have more info.

good luck 2 us all in this tedious journey. :)
yes, we are speculating that dh has the same thing. we were going to do the scsa test, which check for sperm dna fragmentation. but then the re brought up a point...he said then where would we go from there? bedises taking viatmins & antioxidants & other supplements, which may not even help, there's not much that can be done. so we decided not to. where will you be doing imsi? good luck to you!
ME: 32
DH: 38 (Severe MF)

IVF 1: BFP...M/C
IVF 2-5: BFN
IVF 6: BFP...it's twins!!

A strong, positive attitude will create more miracles than any wonder drug.

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riogirl71
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Re: IMSI = SUPER ICSI!!

Post by riogirl71 »

http://doctorandpatient.blogspot.com/20 ... -icsi.html

don't know who this guy is but make sure about what he is saying that IMSI takes much longer than ICSI.
moorebaby
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Re: IMSI = SUPER ICSI!!

Post by moorebaby »

riogirl71 wrote:http://doctorandpatient.blogspot.com/20 ... -icsi.html

don't know who this guy is but make sure about what he is saying that IMSI takes much longer than ICSI.
i just read it & it makes sense that the eggs would have to be saved for much longer. but what if the male specimen was produced prior to er & imsi was done then & the sperm that were usable would be frozen & then thawed & used w/ the eggs after the er? just a thought. i don't even know if that would be possible.
ME: 32
DH: 38 (Severe MF)

IVF 1: BFP...M/C
IVF 2-5: BFN
IVF 6: BFP...it's twins!!

A strong, positive attitude will create more miracles than any wonder drug.

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Wishing4bump
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Re: IMSI = SUPER ICSI!!

Post by Wishing4bump »

Hi all this sounds really interesting iam in Spain as well what clinics have it please I have heard nothing of the sort and it's male factor for us too please please let me know what clinics are offering it also where a bouts in Spain are you going? Just wondering about other clinics for the future
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