octuplets and IUI or IVF

[momtobetobe]

My favorite source of infertility info is this radio show I listen to each week called Creating a Family: Talk about Infertility and Adoption. The Jan. 14 Creating a Family show was on multiple births in infertility treatment. (www.CreatingaFamily.com ). Their guest was a big infertility specialist and researcher about multiples in infertility. He was Dr. Robert Stillman. They talked about this very thing—high number of multiples-- on the show. He said it was almost always the result of injectibles with IUI. They spent a lot of time talking about how to do injectibles with IUI or intercourse safely. I learned a lot and it changed my perspective. Especially with this story! He also pointed out when you should try this technique. I pray for those children—all 14. That same website www.CreatingaFamily.com reviews currentl research and they have some interesting recent research on the long term impacts of prematurity that last a lifetime even if it isn’t obvious. Does this make you as sad as it does me?

[kerpupples]

I have some friends who just cancelled an IUI/injectibles cycle because she responded too well to the injectibles. I think it's highly irresponsible of a doctor to encourage a couple to complete a cycle in this sort of situation but ultimately it is the couple's choice.

However, I saw on the news this morning that these octuplets were a result of not IUI but IVF. The whole situation just astounds me.

[CT_Michele]

I am very curious to see how this actually did happen. There are many conflicting reports. I know it has been said it may have been ivf, but I really can;t believe it, I really think it had to be iui or stimming with natural conception. This is going to thrust ivf and infertility into the public eye again, which happens every so often when this type of story comes around.

I do feel sad for the kids. I don't know how she will care for them all properly in her situation. I truly hope this was not the doing of the clinic. I can't imagine any dr would be so irresponsible. I can only imagine that the clinic was not told the truth about her situation or she used the stims in an inappropriate way.

Of course, I frequently think about what I would do if I found myself in a situation where I ended up with way more than I expected, and personally, I don't think I could reduce, even knowing the risks to myself.

I am really curious to hear more about this story.

[CT_Michele]

I just saw another report that this was an FET. I just can;t believe a clinic would transfer that many to someone so young with so many kids. If a clinic knowingly did this, I think they may be in some trouble.

[momtobetobe]

I simply can't believe that it is IVF, fresh or frozen. I has got to be injectibles with either IUI (shame on the doctor) or plain old sex. I sure hope so.

[kerpupples]

I'm guessing that if it was IVF/FET then whichever clinic performed the procedure is doing whatever it can to keep its name under wraps.

Even with injectibles - do clinics just prescribe patients the drugs and then let them go on their own? I would think this woman would have been advised very strongly against trying to get pregnant if proper monitoring had been done. It just make me shake my head. I feel terrible for those poor kiddos too.

Michele, you make a very good point about reduction. I don't think I could do it either - but neither would I transfer 8 or go through with an IUI with that many ripe eggs.

[momtobetobe]

On that radio show I told you about on multiples, the doctor/researcher was asked the question about monitoring when you are doing an IUI with injectilbes. His answer was eye opening for us. He said it was impossible and he explained why. On the other hand surely they could have done a better job than this. Why would any clinic transfer 8 embryos????????

I know I said I was sick of this topic, but I keep posting on it. I'm hopelss.

[hrobinson]

In defense of this lady, I heard once someone implanting just 3 eggs, and all 3 divided. She was pregnant with sextuplets (I think that is right) for quite a while, and ended up losing three of them. so, anything can happen. I do feel for all these kids. I hope these parents are prepared for all that it will take to raise all these kids.

[BIGREDIOWAN]

I have a hard time understanding what doctor would agree to put all these embryo's back with an IVF cycle. Our doctor was very strict in saying unless it's an extreme circumstance he would put no more than two back at a time. He put back three for my wife and I, but only because the three that were frozen were frozen in the same vile and he had to unthaw all of them. I think it's irresponsible on the doctors part and her part, but she has to deal with that now and hopefully she give them a good life.

[kerpupples]

momtobe - it is not impossible to monitor when using injectibles. I personally know people who cancelled their IUI cycles because the woman was producing too many eggs. They can monitor an IUI cycle even with Clomid, I had a girlfriend do an IUI just yesterday with two eggs from Clomid that could be seen very clearly. At that stage it's no different than monitoring an IVF cycle.

Anyway, I too just saw the story that this was an FET. Apparently this woman didn't want to dispose of any of her frosties so she transferred them all.

[CT_Michele]

I still can't believe fet! I understand her not wanting to dispose of embryos, but my clinic would never use that as a valid reason to transfer 8. I really do hope it turns out to be a case of 4 embryos all miraculously splitting, but I am doubtful. My guess is that this clinic will have some explaining to do, and this will all lead to stricter standards or guidelines being put into place when it comes to ivf.

[momtobetobe]

Of course it could be drugs just bought via unregulated channels and no doctor was involved. I have no idea. All options seem bad.

I don't exactly remember what the doctor said about IUI monitoring, but I htink he said it wasn't an exact science. He did say that they could be canceled and should be canceled if the eggs were seen.

[Ghost]

It seems it was IVF using six frozen embryos.

Octuplet mom was treated at Beverly Hills clinic

The mother of octuplets was implanted with those embryos at a Beverly Hills fertility clinic run by a well-known - and controversial - specialist who pioneered a method of implantation.

Dr. Michael Kamrava's name emerged Monday as a result of an interview aired Monday on NBC with Nadya Suleman, who gave birth to eight babies Jan. 26.

Over the past two weeks, the identity of Suleman's fertility doctor has been a source of great mystery because of questions over the ethics of implanting numerous embryos in a woman who already had six children.

Kamrava, 57, would not comment on the issue, but told reporters outside his clinic on Rodeo Drive that he had granted an interview to one of the television networks. When asked to provide more detail, he said, "Watch the news."

Without identifying the doctor, the Medical Board of California said last week it was looking into the Suleman case to see if there was a "violation of the standard of care." The medical board said Monday it has not taken any disciplinary action against Kamrava in the past.

In the NBC interview, Suleman did not identify her doctor by name, but said that she went to the West Coast IVF Clinic in Beverly Hills - of which Kamrava is director - and that all 14 of her children were conceived with help from the same doctor. In 2006, Los Angeles TV station KTLA ran a story on infertility that showed Kamrava treating Suleman and discussing embryo implantation.

Kamrava graduated from the University of Illinois and went to medical school at Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland, according to state records and his Web site.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/O/ ... SECTION=US

Do not underestimate the frozen embryo!!!

[Ghost]

His clinic's success rates are found here:

https://www.sartcorsonline.com/rptCSR_P ... cPKID=2400

[Ghost]

"And I...was never here."

James Earl Jones
The Hunt for Red October