Ghost- embryo quality

[shermy19]

So, I had my ET this morning and I have not stopped crying since. Again, poor embryo quality! I am crushed! They transfered 6 embryos and tried to reassure me that a viable pregnancy is still possible. They are between 4 nd 6 cells, but definite fragmentation. This is my second attemp at IVFand I had poor embryo quality last time. I don't know what to do. Is it still possible to get pregnant? Do I look for a different RE? What is the reason for poor embryo quality? He said there is nothing I could have done differently. Thanks fo rany advice/help you can offer.

[miyaya]

Shermy~I saw your post and just wanted to let you know I understand how you feel. It appears I too have poor quality embryo's. Last cycle I only had 2 eggs but one fert. Its quality was only 4 cell, "c" grade (meaning moderate frag) and fair symmetry. It was a BFN. My most current cycle I had 21 eggs, 9 fert but still had to do a 2 day transfer b/c I only had 2 "b" grade embies. Again, no awesome. I am feeling lost...not sure what to do. I am only 32 and did not think I would be facing egg quality issues especially since I had a baby 2 years ago with fertility but who know....chin up. I have read that miracles happen even with less than perfect embies....only teh strong survive:) You are not alone....can i ask...did you do a 3 day transfer? Does your partner have any issues?

[shermy19]

I did a 3 day transfer and my DH hano issues. It is all unexplained, which is even more frustrating. I wish I had answers...

[AmandaM]

There is hope for those with poor egg quality. I went through IVF for the purpose of PGD (Pre implantation genetic diagnosis) for a known genetic condition. I wasn't expecting to have an issues getting pregnant. Well, it took us 3 tries due to poor embryo quality, due to fragmentation and the cells dividing into uneven sizes. The first attempt the Dr. thought it was just due to the OHSS. The second try same thing happened so he determined there was a issue. On the 3rd try he gave me a growth hormone for 4 days. He has seen a lot of benefit for various issues with the GH, fragmentation being one of them. I now have 9 1/2 month old twins. So it does work. Keep the faith and dont 't give up. Best of luck, b

[Ghost]

So, I had my ET this morning and I have not stopped crying since. Again, poor embryo quality! I am crushed! They transfered 6 embryos and tried to reassure me that a viable pregnancy is still possible. They are between 4 nd 6 cells, but definite fragmentation. This is my second attemp at IVFand I had poor embryo quality last time. I don't know what to do. Is it still possible to get pregnant? Do I look for a different RE? What is the reason for poor embryo quality? He said there is nothing I could have done differently. Thanks fo rany advice/help you can offer.

It's possible this transfer will work. I can recall cases where the embryologist told me certain patients would not get pregnant because their transferred embryos looked so bad, but they did get pregnant, and went on to have healthy babies.

Poor embryo quality at this stage is almost always an egg quality problem (sperm issues show up later). If you changed to another clinic, you would probably take the problem with you. But sometimes clinics do things that might affect the oocytes.

Keep in mind, most patients don't have those picture perfect embryos with 8 cells on day 3 and no fragmentation. Most patients have fewer cells and some fragmentation. Also, it's possible the change from culture media to your uterus might help them a bit. Just speculating there, but some doctors believe the uterus is better than the media.

I can't condone transferring six in any case.

[justwannabamom]

Shermy19
Hi I just lurk here anymore and try not to post and get all involved in all this talk but your post struck me close to home. I had my first ivf july 09 at clinic #1 with 3 poor quality embryos on day 3 BFN then switched clinics and had ivf #2 in dec 09 with again poor quality embryos this time 2 left on day 5. My RE says exactly what ghost said above about it being an egg issue.I came to trust both ghost and my new RE very much. So I take that to be the truth for sure. However it is a terrible thing to hear. My RE has recommended donor eggs for us. DH is done with it all so it doesn't matter to me I guess but I wanted to tell you that you are not alone. I went through exactly what you have and I hope that the transfer of 6 on day three is successful. I begged my RE to transfer all 5 that I had on day 4 and he refused but by day 5 there were only 2 still living both very poor quality so that was what we transferred with a BFN. I would think that with all 6 on day 3 you would have a much better shot at it so best of luck to you! Sounds like your RE is doing everything he can to give you the best possible chance. Very few RE's would transfer 6. I will be thinking of you. If you ever need to talk pm me.

Ghost if you read this I would love to hear from you. I have been wondering myself is donor eggs what you would recommend or is there something else that can be done to improve egg quality once you know that is an issue?

[Ghost]

Shermy19
Hi I just lurk here anymore and try not to post and get all involved in all this talk but your post struck me close to home. I had my first ivf july 09 at clinic #1 with 3 poor quality embryos on day 3 BFN then switched clinics and had ivf #2 in dec 09 with again poor quality embryos this time 2 left on day 5. My RE says exactly what ghost said above about it being an egg issue.I came to trust both ghost and my new RE very much. So I take that to be the truth for sure. However it is a terrible thing to hear. My RE has recommended donor eggs for us. DH is done with it all so it doesn't matter to me I guess but I wanted to tell you that you are not alone. I went through exactly what you have and I hope that the transfer of 6 on day three is successful. I begged my RE to transfer all 5 that I had on day 4 and he refused but by day 5 there were only 2 still living both very poor quality so that was what we transferred with a BFN. I would think that with all 6 on day 3 you would have a much better shot at it so best of luck to you! Sounds like your RE is doing everything he can to give you the best possible chance. Very few RE's would transfer 6. I will be thinking of you. If you ever need to talk pm me.

Ghost if you read this I would love to hear from you. I have been wondering myself is donor eggs what you would recommend or is there something else that can be done to improve egg quality once you know that is an issue?

There are some things claimed to improve the egg cohort. Growth hormone came up on another thread today. Another is DHEA (or androgens in general). There is more evidence for the former than for the latter.

Among the ways to harm the cohort are triggering too early or extended coasting.

Egg donor cycles cost over $20,000 counting all the expenses. Despite the high cost, it can be more cost effective than autologous cycles for patients with low chances of success. $25K for a 55% chance of success (national average) can beat $12K for a 15% chance.

There are two ideas you might consider before giving up on the egg donor idea. First, there is at least one clinic that is banking frozen donor eggs. It's far more economical than fresh donor cycles, and can get the cost down to around $12K total. The success rates are similar to fresh donor cycles at that clinic.

Another idea is donor embryo. Clinics have many thousands of frozen embryos remaining after couples had IVF success. Previously it was difficult for anyone else to use these embryos because the couple that owns them has not been FDA screened for diseases. While they may be willing to donate their embryos to infertile couples, they are usually reluctant to undergo the extensive disease screening that egg donors undergo. However, I learned just this week that the FDA allows the donation without the disease screening, provided the recipient is made aware of the risk in the lack of screening. By the way, IVF patients are screened for many diseases, like HIV, anyway. But that routine screening is not at thorough as the FDA standard. A donor embryo cycle costs about the same as any FET cycle, perhaps with a modest added fee, but still under $5000 and much cheaper than a fresh donor cycle. If your clinic has good success rates with frozen embryos, this could be a real bargain. Of course, the donated embryos have no biological relationship to either of the intended parents.