Fresh vs FET - ghost?

[leorira11]

I'm hoping to schedule another FET soon. (Recovery from a D&C after a missed miscarraige isn't going as quickly as we'd hoped, so this is taking a bit of time)

My question is:

I have done 2 fresh cycles and 2 FETs. The first fresh cycle, I got pregnant with twins after transferring two 3day embryos. The first FET, I did NOT get pregnant after transfer 1 day 5 blastocyst. The second FET I did NOT get pregnant after transferring 2 day3 embryos. The second fresh cycle I did get pregnant with a singleton after transferring one day 5 blastocyst. I currently have two day 5 blastocysts frozen.

I'm becoming suspicious since I've gotten pregnant on BOTH fresh cycles, but NEITHER of the FETs. My doctors assure me that it's just the odds. I'm wondering if there might be another factors. I don't want another failed FET cycle just to see.... I'd like to solve this now if there is a problem. I can think of lots of problems there can be that would make a FET fail when a fresh suceeds, but my doctors assure me that the FET cycles are fine.

I'm just really confused, and losing hope. (With all my fails and losses, I'm beginning to doubt that I'll ever have a child)

I know that it's almost always best to transfer frozen rather than do another fresh cycle, but I'm really concerned that no FETs have gotten me pregnant....

[Ghost]

I'm hoping to schedule another FET soon. (Recovery from a D&C after a missed miscarraige isn't going as quickly as we'd hoped, so this is taking a bit of time)

My question is:

I have done 2 fresh cycles and 2 FETs. The first fresh cycle, I got pregnant with twins after transferring two 3day embryos. The first FET, I did NOT get pregnant after transfer 1 day 5 blastocyst. The second FET I did NOT get pregnant after transferring 2 day3 embryos. The second fresh cycle I did get pregnant with a singleton after transferring one day 5 blastocyst. I currently have two day 5 blastocysts frozen.

I'm becoming suspicious since I've gotten pregnant on BOTH fresh cycles, but NEITHER of the FETs. My doctors assure me that it's just the odds. I'm wondering if there might be another factors. I don't want another failed FET cycle just to see.... I'd like to solve this now if there is a problem. I can think of lots of problems there can be that would make a FET fail when a fresh suceeds, but my doctors assure me that the FET cycles are fine.

I'm just really confused, and losing hope. (With all my fails and losses, I'm beginning to doubt that I'll ever have a child)

I know that it's almost always best to transfer frozen rather than do another fresh cycle, but I'm really concerned that no FETs have gotten me pregnant....

Please tell me everything about your FETs. Natural cycle? Were you on Lupron? When did you start progesterone and estradiol relative to the transfer? Also, if you don't mind, which clinic is that?

[annashope]

Leorira

I was just thinking about you today since I too have been feeling pretty low and discouraged. We have been going through this for 3 years now actively and still no baby and last summer when our IVF worked my 17 year old sister got pregnant naturally -then we miscarried by week 8 and now I can't even be around her because it is a constant reminder of where we should be now. I know I must sound like a whiny baby but over the past 3 years I have tried everything to cope with this and now I am running out of positive thoughts. Like you said in your post in the October thread- this is limiting how many children we will be able to have and we always both dreamed of having a big family with 4 kids. Now I am starting to feel like we will never even have one. Ugh! today we went into the store and it had a huge beautiful Christmas tree display and while usually this cheers me up today I felt even sadder knowing that once again we will have Christmas and no baby. I just don't know how to wear rose colored glasses any more and tell myself that this is ok when I am so heartbroken all the time. I am writing you because I read your posts and I know you will understand. People tell me that I am young (28) and that there is plenty of time but 3 years into it I feel very disappointed and discouraged and just plain sad. I am noticing that even on here people who got negatives and chemicals after my loss are already at ET stage and I am still waiting for this FET (transfer first week of novermber- God willing) We wanted a life devoted to our family and full of little children and laughter and now everyone I know is telling me that I should let go and rethink my life and I just don't know how to change who I am and what I want. While at the same time everyone around me is pregnant and it just pisses me off. (Sorry for the language)

Thanks fr letting me vent and I am here if you want to vent- or you can PM me

Anna

[leorira11]

Ghost -

On the first day of my period (or second if it's the weekend), I go for an ultrasound and bloodwork. That day, I start Estrofem - 2mg x 3/day. I go back in another week for an ultrasound/bloodword and continue the Estrofem. The next week, I have an ultrasound, my lining is declared 'perfect' and I start progesterone (Utrogestan suppositories, 400mg x 2/day). Depending on what day we transfer, I take the Utrogestan for 3 or 5 days before transfer (if the embryos are 3 or 5 day).

After the transfer, I continue Utrogestan suppositories (400mg x 2/day) and the Estrofem pills (2mg x 3/day) until my beta, about 2 weeks later. Both times, the FET has been negative and I was told to stop my drugs and I get the HEAVIEST period ever. (I've never had failed fresh cycle so I can't compare)

Annashope - This miscarriage SUCKS. Failed cycles are better - because you can start again. This missed miscarriage is the biggest pain in my ass (I won't apologize for language! I think I've earned the use of a few swear words )
Apparently, there is still a mass in my uterus - and it's getting some blood flow. I'm waiting to hear back from the doctor about whether we continue to wait (I'm 4 weeks post D&C) or we "intervene".

I really don't want another D&C. That would be my THIRD (I had one after my twins' delivery since I was hemorrhaging). I'm already SUCH high risk for pre-term labor, I don't need more people messing with my uterus.

I'm so frustrated, since the u/s after the D&C was "clean".

Also - two people I know just got pregnant the FIRST month they were trying, and are due in March (I should be due in April). One is my co-worker, who is being obnoxious about her pregnancy in the office. Grrrr....

No Christmas for me (I'm Jewish), but December 26 is our twin's one year birthday (DH doesn't like to call it their 'deathday', so we call it their birthday). I'm trying to figure out what we want to do to "celebrate" - as well as deal with all of this "not-healing-quickly/properly" shit.

My own mother keeps telling me I should focus on my 'career' instead of on the IVF... but my job is one I keep because it'll be great for when we have kids. I've always been pregnant or trying since working here. I don't want to give up this job.... I'm an opera singer on the side (amateur), so I've been trying to get involved in as many performances as I can... but even that can't distract me....

[leorira11]

Ghost - I wanted to add that I've never taken Lupron (not even for fresh cycles, my doctor has me on antagonist (Ganirelix) cycles). I'm anovulatory PCO, but our reason for doing IVF/ICSI is male factor (I ovulate on Clomid).

[leorira11]

re-reading your question -

Ghost - I'm located in Jerusalem, Israel. I go to the IVF Clinic at Mt Scopus Haddassah Hospital (one of the best in this country)

[Ghost]

Ghost -

On the first day of my period (or second if it's the weekend), I go for an ultrasound and bloodwork. That day, I start Estrofem - 2mg x 3/day. I go back in another week for an ultrasound/bloodword and continue the Estrofem. The next week, I have an ultrasound, my lining is declared 'perfect' and I start progesterone (Utrogestan suppositories, 400mg x 2/day). Depending on what day we transfer, I take the Utrogestan for 3 or 5 days before transfer (if the embryos are 3 or 5 day).

After the transfer, I continue Utrogestan suppositories (400mg x 2/day) and the Estrofem pills (2mg x 3/day) until my beta, about 2 weeks later. Both times, the FET has been negative and I was told to stop my drugs and I get the HEAVIEST period ever. (I've never had failed fresh cycle so I can't compare).

Sounds like the preparation and luteal support are similar to my clinic's. So I think your negative results were because the thawed embryos were not viable and did not implant. That raises two possibilities. First, it's possible that freezing and thawing ruined the embryos. Second, it's possible that they transferred your best embryos in your fresh cycle and those they froze were not viable, even before they froze them. I tend to think the first possibility is the most likely. Lots of embryos are ruined by freezing and thawing.

[stone76567]

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[leorira11]

Ghost -

Why do they transfer them (or freeze) if they aren't viable? They can't tell when they defrost them? The first FET we did, we defrosted 2 and grew them - one of them made it to blastocyst in 2 days.

I tend to agree that they transfer the best ones and freeze the less-good ones. I'm annoyed that I got pregnant with fraternal twins the first IVF, but nothing from either FET (I'd rather have transferred the best and the worst ...)

The fact that all my FETs have failed make me really want to transfer both of the blasts we have left (I've been favoring SETs since my twin loss). That way, if there is something wrong with FETs, I only do one (instead of two) before starting the new IVF...

Apparently my clinic is the best in Israel and people come from all over the country to do IVF here. (I picked this one because it's close to work!) I can't imagine there is something wrong with their freezing/defrosting process. I guess it's just bad luck.

[Ghost]

Ghost -

Why do they transfer them (or freeze) if they aren't viable? They can't tell when they defrost them? The first FET we did, we defrosted 2 and grew them - one of them made it to blastocyst in 2 days.

I tend to agree that they transfer the best ones and freeze the less-good ones. I'm annoyed that I got pregnant with fraternal twins the first IVF, but nothing from either FET (I'd rather have transferred the best and the worst ...)

The fact that all my FETs have failed make me really want to transfer both of the blasts we have left (I've been favoring SETs since my twin loss). That way, if there is something wrong with FETs, I only do one (instead of two) before starting the new IVF...

Apparently my clinic is the best in Israel and people come from all over the country to do IVF here. (I picked this one because it's close to work!) I can't imagine there is something wrong with their freezing/defrosting process. I guess it's just bad luck.

It's not your clinic. Freezing and thawing embryos often results in some harm, and we cannot always tell just by looking at them. But your clinic grew one of your out a couple of days, which suggests that particular embryo was not significantly harmed. I did not know that before. Sounds like your doctor is probably correct...maybe it's just a little bad luck?

I think transferring one makes a lot of sense. You can always return for the second one. But that is frustrating if most of the cycles fail, and I can see transferring two in some cases. Repeated implantation failures might justify it. Up to you and your doctor, of course.

[leorira11]

thanks Ghost.

bad luck..... we've got plenty of that.

I'm really leaning toward transferring 2 this time.... this will be our fifth transfer - and we still are trying for our first 'take-home' baby.

[margi26]

Leorira--Just wanted to chime in and offer my support for all that you've been through and all that you have ahead-whether with FET or fresh cycle. I hope that you have a good talk with your RE and get it worked out so that you get to move forward with the absolute best option for you--and soon!

Annashope and I miscarried close in time and I can completely relate to where both of you are and what you are feeling . The miscarriage has been so much worse for me than the BFN....I am hoping to start IUI (hoping to start stims today!) and trying to stay positive, but it gets so discouraging at times. After 3 IVF cycles, I feel as though I am going backwards by doing IUI, but it is the only thing we can afford at this point--so trying to keep PMA.

Anyway, I didn't write this to "whine" about myself, but rather to offer you support. You are clearly such a bright and strong woman....don't let anyone (not even your mother) discourage you from your dreams....work is "work". You can get joy and satisfaction to some degree from it, but it is not the end all be all. Only you know what your dreams, hopes and desires are--and I hope that each and every one is realized for you!!

PS-I'm Jewish as well! And living in the Southern US--go figure!

[leorira11]

thanks Margi.

I keep getting the comment "Oh, at least you know you can *get* pregnant".... geez, thanks. I know have lost 3 children... it helps not at all to know that I can *get* pregnant. I don't want to be PREGNANT (ftr, I HATE being pregnant, I've had HG both times).... I want to have a BABY! Most people don't see a big difference in that, but I do...

Thanks for the support. It's so super unfair that we can still miscarry after doing everything to get pregnant. So super, stinking unfair.

[leorira11]

(btw Margi ---- If you've ever thought about moving to Israel, do so! IVF here is covered by the national health care system, who continues to pay until you have 2 children!)

[Esie]

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