day 5 embryo - "almost Morula" - Ghost?

[leorira11]

I have one frozen embryo. For a variety of reasons, we are doing a FET with that embryo instead of a fresh cycle (my insurance will only pay for FET if we have any frozen embryos and the holiday season here in October means that I can't do fresh in any case since the clinic will closed so many days).

I've never had blasts on day5 - only morulae. Most of them have been 'almost blastocysts'.

From my last fresh cycle, the embryos were the worst quality we've had yet (still all A/B grade, but slower in development). On day 5, we had 2 morulae, 1 'almost morula', and 3 that were even further behind (iirc, 7c, 12c and 6c). We transferred the 2 morulae and I got pregnant with twin boys (we will never know if they were identical or not. They were di/di and we transferred 2, so we assumed fraternal. But both had my husband's recessive blood type, so the doctors think they may have been identical. We didn't take any DNA samples before they were buried, so we'll never know.)

Now we have a grade A/B "almost morula". I asked my doctor how likely this was to work, since the embryo is behind in development. He replied that the two we transferred in February were 'behind' in development and I got pregnant with twins. He says he doesn't like to give odds, but he would say we have about 30% chance of a viable pregnancy. (I've had one missed miscarriage which he says is normal and doesn't affect our chances of a viable pregnancy. The later losses (22 & 24 weeks) will only be a problem if the pregnancy is viable and doesn't affect my IVF odds.)

Does that sound right? Should we really push to do a fresh cycle instead? If our odds are much less than 30%, I'm not sure that the whole FET process and the stress it'll bring is worth it and I'll fight my insurance and wait longer to do a fresh cycle.

[Ghost]

Your doctor's estimate sounds like it's in the ballpark to me.

I think FET makes sense. If you won't use them, why would you freeze them? FET is a lot cheaper than a fresh cycle.

[fruit]

Leorira - i surely can't give u a medical advise, but i think since u have a frozen embryo and since ur insurance will pay for ur FET and since u can't do a fresh cycle before November, why not try an FET cycle ?? i know u mentioned the stress and everything but u can try it in the waiting time from now till ur fresh cycle and who knows after all u may not be needing the fresh cycle
i wish u all the best in whatever u'll decide.

[leorira11]

thanks.

Ghost - I'm completely covered by the national healthy care system here in Israel until I have 2 living children at home. So cost isn't a factor. The advantage of a fresh cycle would be transferring a better quality embryo. We always have some to freeze - and then we would be able to transfer this lower quality embryo as one of a double embryo transfer with another lower quality embryo. (I know, I know -- I've lost 2 sets of twins and I should only be doing SETs. We've done plenty of SETs --- but after a million failed cycles, we start to get desperate for success and transfer 2 again. I would feel comfortable transferring 2 embryos if both were lower quality.)

But what my doctor said is that about 30% is the best odds I'm going to get with any SET... I don't understand how I have my best possible odds with an embryo that isn't perfect.

Of course -- I'll never be "30% pregnant" and this is an all-or-nothing deal - so I'll either be pregnant or not-pregnant after this FET.

Fruit - I go back and forth between thinking "why not do this FET?" --- but cycle #7?!??! I can't believe I'm up to this.... each cycle makes me more and more desperate. A BFN from the FET would be so much harder than just another month of waiting. But of course, we are all here hoping for the BFP....

[LYD10]

Hi Leora - can you do a FET wihtout expecting anything? basically just expect to get a BFN and go through the motions. if you could keep your hopes from rising then you wouldnt be as crushed and it would give you something to do while waiting for fresh cycle. I tried to do that with my last FET where i had really poor quality embryos to transfer and i sort of succeeded from keeping my hopes from going up. it was still hard in the end when it didnt work out - especially since it took so long to fail. darn chemical. i have to tell you though that going forward i did decide to just forcus on transfering the best embies and not muck around with the "slow" ones of which i also seem to have plenty each cycle. so i guess i dont really have an advise at all i did the FET with crappy embies - sort of kept my hopes from rising - but the chemical was a mess - and now i decided to transfer just the good ones. and looking back i wish i didnt waste my time on the FET because now i am waiting for my chemical beta to go down.

urghhh - its a mess either way

i am sorry we are forced to make such crappy choices

[to_have_fun08]

Leoria - could they thaw the embryo and see if it makes it to a blast on day 6? If it does then transfer, it might be good, if not then no transfer. 6 day blasts can be just as good as 5 day blasts. I understand not wanting to go through the heartache of another BFN. There is only so much a person can mentally take. Good luck with your decision.

[leorira11]

thanks for the advice...

Lyd - yeah - I always try to keep my expectations low.... but I can't help it.

Chris - thanks for the advice - but is a canceled cycle (ie, nothing or nothing 'good' to transfer) any better than a BFN? I'm not sure. I'd rather give that embryo a chance rather than do a whole cycle and not transfer anything.

I defintely think the plan is to go ahead with the FET.

(Of course, hindsight is 20/20.... we should have transferred only 1 with my last cycle. Maybe then I would have a healthy singleton baby boy and the FET would have brought me his healthy baby brother - instead of twins who were born together but died.... ugh - the guilt can drive me crazy....)

[Sunshine1576]

No Leonira, you cannnot blame yourself for what happened with the twins, I used to blamed myself for a singleton that maybe I was taking hot baths and it caused the m/c, but doctors said this happens to one out of every four women! know we always want answers but we have to move on to move forward. I think you are making the wise decision in going with a FET this cycle, waiting until 2012 would just be too long for anyone. I'm struggling with six weeks over here...I want to save up money so I won't be so much in the hole with my credit card but when you want something so darn much it's hard to wait.
Sending you much love,
Christy

[dogzrule]

Just chiming in as a stalker. I want to echo the others and say give the FET a chance, for all the reasons stated above. You don't know me because we run in different circles here, but I have been keeping up with your stories.

[sharishu]

I totally support your FET cycle. I think the nurse at the hospital told me they only keep the embies for a limited amount of time (frozen), don't know which kupa you are with, so may not be the same. In any case, this FET might BE the one. You never know. Also, would going straight to a fresh cycle reduce your stress that much? Also, question: in case I ever do get an extra embie for freezing (yeah right), what is involved in FET? I've always had to do fresh...

Good luck to you, machzika etzbaot!!
Shari xo

[dogzrule]

sharishu - an FET is so much less work and so much less stress than a fresh cycle. After my period started, I began taking estrogen to prime my lining. I only had to go to the clinic twice to check the lining, and the only reason I had to go a second time was due to the fact that my lining was not quite where they wanted it yet. So, I went back a week later, all was good, started the progesterone etc just like you would before a fresh cycle's transfer. Everything after that is the same as a fresh cycle, you're just not having to do hardly ANYTHING before the transfer. It was so low stress, I couldn't believe it.

[leorira11]

ditto on that - I've done 3 FETs -

On CD3, I would go for bw/us and since there were no cysts and my e2 was low - I would start taking oral estrogen supplements (Estrofem) 2mg x 3/day. A lining check about a week later and then another a few days after that. I never had issues with my lining. Around CD14-15, I would start progesterone (400mg vaginally x 2/day) -- 5 days later, we would transfer the blasts.

[tuffy4u]

leorira11, I have been following your journey on here for a while. I don't have much to add but wanted to let you know that I'm praying for you and your family. Best of luck on whatever you decide.