Bitter...Any advice?

[cmg]

Hi Mia

and thanks for your lovely comments. I'm intrigued by your last post - I'm sure there is something to be said for loving a younger man, but I do hope you've left out a number. If he really is only 2 then could this be part of the problem?! Only kidding.

The other thing I wanted to say was not to assume that you necessarily need a counsellor or psychologist or therapist who will understand what you are going through. I have been very lucky in that I've been seeing a therapist who herself had fertility problems and adopted 10 years ago, but that is actually co-incidence and really just adds a bit of extra insight. All you really need is someone to help you sort through your feelings and that doesn't have to be someone who's been through the same thing. It needs to be someone who is properly trained. In fact, when I rang the Samaritans the other night (do they have them in the US? They're a free counselling helpline you can call anytime of the day or night) I spoke to what sounded like a man in his 50s. There is no way he could relate directly to what I was going through but he was absolutely fantastic at listening and helping me work my way through my tangled feelings.

I'm sure that as a cognitive psychologist you must have worked with clients whose experiences are completely different from anything that's ever happened to you but does that make you less effective? I wouldn't have thought so. I expect there is something to be said for specialising, so you can reassure people that their feelings are very common, for example, but I don't think it's essential. I still reckon it would be worth giving it a try but I promise to come down off my "therapy is marvellous" hobby horse now, cos it is an individual decision.

Enjoy your art - that's one of my hobbies too and you've spurred me on to get on with one of my projects that I put away for the summer, so thanks.

take care

love Caroline

[alicia]

Mia,

I've thought about that too! DH could easily have a family with a younger wife, but for some reason, he chose me. And he has stuck in spite of it all. I am so grateful for that and it's one thing that we do have going for us.

Infertility causes a lot fo divorces. Even though the infertility problems is all mine, It still really made me think about what if we never have kids. Would I still stay with this man - would it be enough? I'm happy to say I've come through the other side of that and I've made a decision to be with him for the second time in my life And although he is a man of few words, I know in my heart that he has done the same.

Oh, and FET is great. I've had no injections and I have felt pretty normal throughout. Except lately everything makes me want to cry. Good sign? Here's hoping for twins for you in January, Mia!!

Alicia

[Mia]

Everyone,
Remember no matter how bad, sad, mad you feel right now it gets better. Some days are better than other---Some worse than others. I guess that is just life. It was just a couple days ago that I felt like throwing the biggest temper tantrum of my life just because I didn't get exactly what I wanted exactly when I wanted it. Now, today, I am better. I am able to be supportive rather than supported. That is why we are so lucky to have each other.

Caroline,
I am glad you are getting back to your project. I really think the best thing is to get on with your life after treatment or between treatments. I know my best days are when I spend time doing things other than researching infertilty topics and going over every statistic possible.

You have not said lately how you are feeling after your horrible experience earlier this month. How are you doing?

Oh and the "therapy is marvellous" is typical of our proffession. We really have to keep those clients coming

Alicia,
HAPPY BIRTHDAY! How is your 2WW going? So they make you take the progesterone even in a natural cycle? How did they know when was the best time to transfer? Don't think my questions are silly, but my next cycle will be natural.
My husband and I are still newlyweds, so I suppose that is where some of my insecurities come from. Of course he knew that this infertility curse was part of the package and he married me anyway, so I probley shouldn't worry that much.

Love,
Mia

[alicia]

Mia,

Thanks! 2ww is going okay - I feel like crying every minute and it doesn't help that the Olympics are on I'm quite certain something is happening, because I felt like this last time. Let us hope that it keeps moving in the right direction.

The natural cycle is fascinating. They let a folicle develop naturally, only they watch it on ultrasound and you monitor LH levels with home ovulation kits. You have to have a regular cycle for them to go forward. Same number of days, good lining, follicle developing normally.

So they put the embryos back at the exact time post-ovulation that matches their age. It's kind of a bait and switch right in your body. Apparently it doesn't know or care that the embryos aren't from that particular egg. It is the closest we can come to conceiving naturally, I guess. I still have progesterone, probably as a precaution only. It is a suppository though - no injections, thank god.

How sweet you are newlyweds! Congratulations. We just had our 6th anniversary. We had no idea I had this problem when we got married.

Alicia

[sfisch]

Mia,

How long have you and your DH been married? My husband and I are newleyweds as well. We were just married in May so we actually started the IVF process before we got married and he knew what he was in for when he signed up with me! Although, neither of us knew that it would be as difficult as it is. I really thought I was done after having my son 14 years ago and then several failed pregnancies, but then I met my husband and I just know what a great dad he would be -- so we decided to pursue IVF. The fear of him leaving has now crept into my mind with my slowly rising hcg -- what if (you know, the ugly what if game), I flat out asked him if he was going to leave me if something goes wrong. Of course he said no, but I can't help but think that he deserves children -- not just his inherited teenage step-son.

Will your next go be with frosties? We really wish we would have had some on this cycle! I am hoping for an hcg level of 600 tomorrow -- my husband says 650, but the doctor office says it needs to be 600 for us to be "out of the woods" and no longer a cause for worry.

Alicia! Happy birthday to you! Hope you are being very very spoiled on your birthday!

[Mandy Miller]

To Mia & anyone else going through this awful experience right now.

I have been there, I know.

This is my 2nd cycle & I remember, even before I started the treatment, in fact for the last few years as we have been ttc for 3 years now, I have felt exactly the same way you have, & still do! At the present time, there is a girl who sits on the opposite side of the room to me & she got pregnant naturally by accident. She is pleased, but I find it so hard. I can't talk to her or congratulate her. She is in a stable relationship presumably, but isn't married & seems to have no plans to do so. I know you don't have to be married, that sounds awful of me, I don't mean it that way. Everday I have to suffer looking at her expanding waistline & think 'Why isn't that me?'. I am in my 2ww wait, 4 days in & it's killing me already.

Give yourself time to grieve. Get it out of your system. Have a damn good cry for a few days, treat yourself to all the foods you avoid normally like chocolate, cream cakes etc & think about the diet when you feel better. That's what I did last time & will again.

I have a plan this time.

My hubby & I are off to Paris on Eurostar for 4 days next month, but are not going to fix a date until my test date on 2 Sept. If it's good news, will go away & happily celebrate with orange juice, if not, am planning on drinking as much champagne as possible for those few days, eating what I want & really enjoying ourselves & having plenty of quality time together for a change without our normal work routines etc. Who knows, maybe by some miracle that may work instead. We may just need more time to practice!!! We'll enjoy doing that for a change anyway, as usually too knackered half the time at home.

When we return, whether it's good news or not, I plan to get fit, maybe join a Yoga class with my mum which is supposed to be good for relaxation she reckons as she does it & try & sort out my diet & lose a bit of weight if not for next time.

Anyway, enough waffling.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do. Take care & remind yourself you are special & deserve good things. Maybe think about going away for a short weekend break somewhere different if you can. It's amazing what a change of scenery can do.

Love & best wishes for your future.

Mandy.xx

[cmg]

Mia

Glad to hear you're feeling better. Thanks for asking how I'm doing - I'm pleased to say I'm doing really well, actually. I'm taking things easy and gradually easing myself back into work, starting with things I can do at home. Being freelance means that, although I haven't earned much money lately, I do have a fantastic amount of flexibility and can work to suit myself.

Emotionally, I'm also feeling a lot better. I think that seeing an independent gynaecologist at my local hospital put a lot of things into perspective for me. I was quite upset afterwards but once I'd had a good cry and a good sleep, I've been on a much more even keel. I even coped with visiting my neighbours' brand new baby without getting upset, so that seemed like a positive step.

I'm also enormously lucky to feel very secure and supported in my marriage. David is slightly older than me (I'm 42 and he's 47) and although we didn't know we were going to have all these problems when we got married we knew we couldn't take anything for granted - we got married 4 years ago, having known each other almost 2 years, so I was already 38. I didn't really believe that we'd have fertility problems but it was always there as a possibility. Years ago David was in a relationship for a about 5 years with someone who already had children, so he knows how hard it is to bring up kids and is under no romantic illusions about it. He'd like to be a father but is not going to be devestated if it doesn't happen. We also both worry about being too old really - as he put it, he'd be retiring at about the time our kid went to university, assuming we have one soon! He's said he'll support me either way if I want to have another go or decide to stop, though I suspect if I said I wanted to keep going he wouldn't be happy. But I know we can negotiate around it and that's the main thing. Going through this horrible experience has made me appreciate what I have got much more and I'm sure that, even if we never have children, we will be ok and will make a good life for ourselves.

I so agree with Mandy about getting on with your life. I would love to whisk David away to Prague or Paris or somewhere but unfortunately he started a new job today (which he'd already postponed a week because I was in hospital) so I think it'll be a while before he can have time off. Perhaps an autumn mini-break somewhere would be good. Mean time, getting back into work is doing me good, as is catching up with friends. I'll really know I'm on the mend when I manage to tidy my office (although on second thoughts that would be so out of character for me that I may worry that something else is happening to my head!).

Anyway, to everyone on this thread who is "in recovery" from failed IVF, take good care of yourself and your partner and take it a day at a time.

love Caroline

[alicia]

Hi Caroline,

Glad things are settling down for you a little. I can understand why David might be happy if you chose not to persue IVF. He's just had such a big scare! But in a few months, he may feel differently. DH also says it's okay if I want to keep trying, but I don't want to take advantage, as he is paying all our living and medical bills right now.

Mandy,

The 2ww is killing me too. I have 7 days to go. I think it got harder after having the one failed cycle. We were so hopeful the first time. Now when the doctors and clinic staff say "good luck" as we're going into treatment, it is hard to respond enthusiastically.

I like your plan. I need to make one too, I think. We have decided to go to Italy for a good long break after we give up on IVF for good, but I'm afraid I might have to do one more fresh cycle - and then there are the frosties - 2 plus any we may get on the next go. But I will be through by the time I am 39 or 40.

Oh, one more reason to feel okay about not having a baby right now: I have some older friends who have teenagers now. They love them, but some days it is really a struggle. Of course, it's a struggle I myself would love to have in 12 or 13 years , but it definately isn't easy.

Alicia

[Mia]

What a horrid day! The doctors give you just enough time to get over the emotional aspect of IVF and then the billing department starts to drive you mad. Billing actually charged me twice for every ultrasound and bloodwork. They chareged me the "package price" and then went right around and charged me again for everything individually!
I have been on the phone all afternoon trying to get this all worked out.
Luckily, I just got off the phone with DH and he put it all in perspective.

Caroline,
I am glad you are getting back to work. I have found that work has been the best thing for me. I plan to work myself silly until January. Oh, what a long way off! I understand about the flexiblity you enjoy freelancing. THis past summer I took the entire summer off and only worked when I wanted to and no more. I think I am better off however now that this semester has started and I can focus on my research and students more intensely. It helps to past the time.
My husband and I have discussed getting a second opinion especially if the FET does not work out. My doctor specializes in IVF and I started there rather than having it as the last option. I think I would like to talk with another doctor about other possible treatment options.
David sounds like a wonderful husband! Chris tells me that if we do not get pregnant that he will be just fine with it, but I do not know. Do men have biological clocks? He said he just wanted to give it a try, but he took the failed attempt alot harder than I thought he would and it broke my heart to see him cry.
You said you freelance, but what do you do? Just wondering. I hope everything continues to go well and you get to have that mini-break in autumn. I unfortunately will be entertaining my in-laws who will coming in October. God, give me stregnth !!

Mandy,
It is hard to deal with pregnant women and women with young baby's, so it is totally okay for you to have the types of feeling you are having. Caroline said she went and visited her friend and her new baby. All I can say is that Caroline is a much stronger person than I. I have a very hard time just keeping myself from sneering at any pregnant lady that passes by. And how silly that is! My infertilty is not their fought nor do I know their personal story.
I can not believe how you ladies talk about heading off to Paris. What a dream that would be as I have never made it yet overseas. It sounds like you are planning a wonderful trip... enjoy! I think Chris and I may head off to Chicago for a few days. He is definately going, but I have not decided yet if I want to join him.
I am going to go ahead a post this so far, but as you know I am no where close to being finished.
to be continued...

[Mia]

Alicia,
Thank you for the information about the natural cycle. I am pretty sure that is the direction my RE wants to head. I do not envy you one bit on the 2WW I was totally loony through the entire time. I think I actual took at least 10 hpts. Now how is that for obsessive-compulsive!!

Shannon, I have not read anything yet about your test today so I am sorry for not commenting although I am thinking about you. Today was the first day back to school and I have been catching up on so much work that I have put off all summer.
Chris and I will have our 1st year anniversery in September, so almost a year. Chris is wonderful, but as you know IVF is extremely stressful and we do not know each other like couples who have been together for a very long time. I think you maybe able to understand what I mean.
I also have a teenae boy (almost). My son will be thirteen in January. I understand Alicia what you mean about teenagers. My son just broke his arm skateboarding. I am lucky though he is a really good kid.

Alicia,
Good luck on the 2WW. It is almost half over! I plan to try at least one more full blown cycle.
I am going to go fight with DH. I will post more later
Love, Mia

[cmg]

Alicia

I so know what you mean about other people's kids making you think twice about how much you want to go ahead. Although I'm in my 40s, most of my friends had kids late so they're nearly all under 10 and often still toddlers. My sister has a 5 year old and 2 year old and although she adores them, her life is very constrained. Even decorating a room in their house is a major operation that takes military planning. It does put things in perspective a bit! Hope you're doing ok on that very last bit of the 2ww by the way.

Mia

I know it sounds glam that we UK girls talk about flying off to Paris but you have to understand that it probably takes less time for us to get there than for you to get to Chicago (depending on where you are in the US of course). So it's not quite as exotic as it seems, though yeah, we are really lucky here in Europe, I guess.

You asked what I do as a freelance psychologist - I'm a business psychologist, so I'm involved with a lot of issues to do with people at work. I do a lot of in depth psychometric assessment of people going for senior jobs, I run assessment centres and I coach people who are having some kind of problem at work or who have recently been promoted and need some support. I've also done a lot of career counselling with people being made redundant and I'm working on a long term project looking at increasing the skills of consultants who work with the long term unemployed. I really enjoy the variety and the freedom to work when I want and have time out when I need it. I'm very lucky really. Anyhow that's enough about me, but you did ask!

Caroline