The Over 40 Crowd

[lara]

Hello you lot,

thanks Jeni yes I'm negative, well, no surprise there really but secretly of course I was hoping and hoping and I don't feel I've got another cycle in me, I'm that exhausted. I was so devastated yesterday I couldn't manage to post much but I'm so attached to this thread, and reading about what everyone else is going through makes me forget my own problems for 5 minutes!

Kat, I'm glad to hear from you. As you know I've had the same damn thing happen to me, twice. The only thing I'd say is that having a D&C can help with your overall uterine health for next time - it kind of clears all the old stuff out and cleans it up so what's in there next time around is healthy. But you have to do what's right for you, and if you're that scared of the general, well, maybe it's not for you. Personally I don't mind them. Bring on the drugs, I say! If you do it naturally and the bleeding gets very heavy get your DP to take you in and get you checked out - don't leave it. Please be careful and look after yourself whatever you decide.

Amfy, I feel the same as you, honey, I really do. I don't feel like cheering all the younger people with their successes because we're getting older every day, but then again, you never know!

Anna, lovely to see you getting into the festive spirit. Very cheering.
Randa, good to have you back.
Jules - all ok, I hope.

thanks to everyone for the support I've had from you all, it's been fab.

Lara x

[randa2006]

How is everyone today?

Lara, did you get bad news? I missed your results posting. I'm so sorry. Did you get af or a -ve? What a terrible thing and so close to the holidays can't make it easier. My prayers are with you.

BigJ - how are you?

JackieT - how are you?

Me -
Back in Oct, my annual pap smear came back positive (level 1), so I had to get rechecked today. At first they couldn't fit me in until Jan 17, but when I said I would be going through IVF at that time, they made room for me. Doc couldn't see anything wrong that would warrant a positive, so he took a biopsy from deeper into the vaginal cavity and I guess we'll have the results in a couple weeks. ?

Not sure how much posting/reading I will be able to do over the next few days. The closer it gets to Christmas, the wackier my schedule gets (doesn't everyone's).

I'll be thinking of you all. I really hope everyone is able to enjoy the season regardless of where we are in our struggle to be mommies.

Love and Peace,
Randa

[AMck]

Hi Ladies,

Big hugs to all with sad news

Randa, good to see you post. Fingers crossed for good test results.

Jackie, how are you? Hope 2ww is flying by!

Lisa good luck for tomorrow

I'm STILL waiting for AF (day 42 now,aaarrgghh!)

Christmas greetings to one and all, PMA to everyone
Kat, loving hugs to you x

Bye for now
Anna x

[lara]

Randa,

Rats about your pap smear, but sounds as though it's false alarm and hoping/praying the biopsy comes back negative. Sounds like you're coping pretty well with everything, Christmas included.

Yes, AF came my test day, 19th, so that was that. If I try again I'll be 44 like you, so we can be 'in the same boat'. I'm pretty burnt out, and have to wonder whether I could cope with another round of drugs and disappointment. My DP is not so keen, really, so then I don't feel very supported, feel like I'm driving the whole thing.

Jolly Christmas everyone, it's going to be mad!

Love Lara xxx

[lara]

ps Anna, well done for hanging in there, day 42 my goodness! Good luck with the progesterone xxx Lara

[erjumper]

Someone please help! I am supposed to start Lupron today for our 5th IVF and I woke up in the night and found my husband in our office watching young girls masturbating on their web cams and him doing the same with our camcorder aimed at him. He quickly shut down the computer and disconnected everything and said he was just looking at pics of girls. I feel so betrayed! I know what he was doing! Then he has the balls to lie to my face that he was just charging the camera for Christmas. (with his shirt off!!!!) It hurts so bad. I hit him and threw him out but I want him gone for good! I feel like my life and my dreams are over. How could he do that???? Looking at Playboy is 1 thing but bringing those scanky ho's into our house and showing himself is another. What do I do? Please help me?? I have no one I can talk to about this.

[Kat]

Wow, Lisa I don't know what advice or help I can offer. I am thinking what would I do and how would I feel? I think I would feel hurt and angry and would feel like he felt he was missing something from me. I think you really need to talk to him if you can bear to do so. Maybe he has never done this kind of thing before, maybe it's a way of escaping to a fantasy world away from the stresses of everyday life. I am no psychologist though, I don't pretend to have any insights into why he might do something like that.

Sorry, not sure if that helped at all, I can't find anything useful on the internet for you either.
I really hope you find the strength to work through this with him however hard it is.

Kat xx

[AMck]

Goodness, what a shock you must have had. I agree with Kat. I really don't know what to say. Can you talk to him about this? Maybe he is feeling a lot of pressure regarding IVF and needed an outlet? I don't know.
We all know blokes do this kind of thing and are able to separate sex and loving feelings.We may not understand why but please realise this probably has nothing to do with your love life with him.
Would going for counselling or mediation help you through this?
Please look after yourself, you've had a shock

We are here for you if you need to talk more

Anna x

[DebraP]

Lisa, I'm sorry you've had such a horrible shock. Have you spoken to him since last night? Do you feel any differently now?

I can only offer you two very personal pieces of input.

Years ago, talking to a guy I knew really well, I asked when the last time he'd made love was. He answered 'a year ago'. I was surprised and said 'wow, I can't imagine not having sex for a year'. To which he replied 'oh you asked about making love. I had sex with someone last week'. It really is that black and white for some men. Perhaps for your DP, this is mindless, fantasy-enactment and nothing to do with the love he has for you.

Secondly and I have no reason to think this is true for you but it is for me. Going through tmt has had a major affect on our love life. I try to still be interested but whilst pumped up on drugs or suffering mood swings, feeling exhausted, man-handled from the vaginal scans, puffy with meds, waiting for test results or coping with failure, m/c and ectopic, I just don't feel like jumping on him like before. He understands and accepts it's a downside of going through tmt but perhaps some men feel isloated, de-masculated and maybe even de-sexed whilst going through all this?

It sounds like I'm making excuses for him but am only trying to work out if it's more than just a web-porn thing. From the huge numbers of (mostly) guys watching porn online, he's one of many who get a kick of what's available out there.

I hope you sort something out with him in the next day or two.
hugs
Debra

[erjumper]

Kat, Anna and Debra,
Thanks so much for your reply. I've been crying for the better part of 12 hours now and thrown up once. I'm just so miffed. We have been so happy lately and had grown so much closer having been through all the infertility treatments and 3 miscarriages together. We had a few rough times in the height of the IVF's with my hormones raging but we came through them much stronger and I thought we communicate better than any couples we know. I've talked to him by phone today and he felt that what he did was just "look at porn". (something i've never gotten stirred up about before) Guys are guys and I feel that looking at some smut occasionally wasn't a betrayal, it's just what guys do. But now i'm faced with this "web-cam" crap which I feel is way too personal. She looked like she was just a teenager (to me anyway) and what she was doing should only be done with someone you love in the privacy of your own home. I can't get the image out of my head!! I feel like she was in our house! He's just stunned that I feel so strongly about it and swears he will never do it again. He really is a great husband. He treats me with the utmost respect and has never given me a reason to suspect he has or would ever cheat. I'm sorry to ramble. This isn't what this message board is about. I started my injections today but the excitement is gone. I've always thought.....and still do....think he'll be a great father. I'm just so repulsed. And 3 days before Christmas!!!! I was so happy and optimistic about this donor egg cycle. Do you think i'm taking this harder than I should? He's probably mortified at being caught and maybe that will deter him in the future. Or does this mean something about us? I've always thought we had a healthy and satisfying sex life but maybe there's something i'm not giving him? Geez, i'm not even hormonal yet and i'm already a mess. Anyone willing to get another man's perspective? I asked him how he'd feel if he caught me watching some other man via his web-cam and he said he didn't know. I think he'd freak!! Once again, sorry to ramble, no one else I could possibly turn to with this! You ladies have been my lifeline to sanity. I hope soon i'll get my head together and be an emotional compass for someone in need. For now, thanks for keeping me afloat.
PMA's, Holiday wishes and sincere condolences to all with recent bad news. What a roller coaster we live on.
Lisa

[DebraP]

Lisa, I'll ask DF for a male perspective when he gets back from work at midnight. Will post his reply tomorrow. Who knows, I might also learn something from his answer?

Thinking about it more, I don't think you can compare your love life and his online kicks. I suspect the fun is BECAUSE it's not you, the woman he loves, his wife, the woman he wants to mother his children. That's not the role of the girl on the webcam. He wants the best of both worlds.

Your hormones will be raging even on Day 1. It's the start of another cycle so your expectations and feelings are already in overdrive. It's no wonder you feel as hurt as you do.

Lastly, we always hope that Christmas will be this perfectly happy, everyone smiling type of occasion. We know it rarely is but that doesn't stop it from hurting when painful realities like this intrude.

hugs
Debra

[randa2006]

Lisa,
I'm in shock for you. So far, I would have reacted exactly the way you did. I don't know much about the guys and porn thing, but I have read that it can become an addiction and something they are very ashamed of. Some guys can enjoy looking at porn on occassion and kind of take it or leave it, but for some it becomes a serious issue that they need professional help with.
One other thing I know is that 99.9% of all men separate love and sex (as others have said here). And on the sex side of things, they are prewired to like variety. That means that even if you were Miss Universe, he would find it hard to never look at other women. So it really isn't about you.
I've always asked "Why, God, did you make men and women so different?" Don't get me wrong, I think we should expect monogomy from our mate (and give it), but their little minds can't help but wander some times.
So sorry you are dealing with this.

[DebraP]

Lisa, I spoke to DF last night. This might not be want you want to hear.

He had very strong views on the subject, even as a guy who has watched online porn (I found this out last night!). He saw the world of difference between passive watching vs. active participation/making contact/ proactively finding someone to share an online experience with. He felt that any proactive contact, even 'just' chatting in chatrooms, is stepping over what is acceptable if in a relationship.

Not sure this helps but you asked for a man's perspective. If it adds anything at all, our 41:29 ages are v. similar to those of you and your DH:

best of luck making sense of this,
hugs
Debra

[AMck]

Hi Lisa , how are you today?
I too asked my other half about this. He said that it was probably just an outlet for any stress or tension he may be feeling. He said that he understood how upsetting it must be for you but not to blame yourself or analyse it too much.
I hope you can talk this through together and resolve the situation.
You are very vulnerable at his time too. Tmt is very emotional and stressful as you know.Try (!) to relax and take one day at a time

Thinking of you

Anna x

[erjumper]

You guys are just AWESOME! Thanks so much for all your responses and input from the male factors. We talked at great length about the whole situation last night and he seems to completely understand and now clearly see the difference between looking at an occasional movie or online video and pics as opposed to the web-cam live interaction kind of thing. He seems truly sorry for the whole thing and swears he will never do it again. So we baked some cookies last night and we're starting off today a brand new day. Thanks again and I wish you all great holidays.....and of course for all that apply BFP's! How are those 2 ww's going?
Love you all,
Lisa