Progesterone + Menses, BFNers, help!

[PMApsy]

Hello guys!

Just a tricky question... I have done two IVF cycles so far, both negative. I responded very well on both cycles and both times, the problem seemed to occur at implantation only. I was prescribed 200mg die of Prometrium after egg retrieval until the blood pregnancy test; I took two vaginal suppositories every 8 hours. However, on both my cycles, my menses started, respectively, 24h and 48h before the blood test (so I was still taking 200mg die of Prometrium vaginally). I had a heavy red flow that required me to wear pads.

I'm now wondering if the dosage and/or administration mode were not well adapted to my case. We will attempt our first FET in August and I need to make an informed decision about my meds. The nurse at the clinic told me that intra-vaginal Prometrium and injectable progesterone have the same efficacy; another seemed astonished that some women are prescribed both, she thinks it's far too much.

Now, an embryologist from the UK answered my questions on an IVF forum. He confirmed that intra-vaginal progesterone and injectable have the same efficacy. He said that, given that PIO hurts so much, it's better to have intra-vaginal pessaries anyway. He added that it's "very common" for BFNers to have their menses start even before they stop their progesterone. He added that I should have blood tests done to check my thyroid, my NK cells and a clotting screen before FET.

Guys, dear fellow BFNers (*hugs*), have any of you started AF full force BEFORE you stopped taking progesterone?

Do any of you know why I should have my thyroid, NK cells and clotting checked? (I mean, precisely; I already have a vague idea)

Thanks dears, and have a great day!

Sophie xxox

[beachbaby]

Hi sophie, sorry to hear your having a tough time. I asked my clinic the same thing and apparently on a fresh cycle we produce progesterone naturally, it is in the follicle sacs, and they just give us extra as a precaution. On my fresh cycle i took one suppository, on frozen cycles i took two. My AF arrived the day of my test on the fresh cyycle on FET due to taking HRT also AF does not arrive until drugs are stopped. I am currently awaiting test results for clotting, immunity, chromosones etc, however my clinic only run these tests once you have had two bio-chemical/miscarraiges. Seems stupid as they are simple blood tests. I have an underactive thyroid(take tablets) this was tested as soon as i was referred to specialist for IVF as thyroid problems can have a huge effect, mine is only minor/borderline but still took 18 months to stabalise.
Good luck in your FET they are far easier on the body and mind and a lot of clinics get better results.
Hope i helped
J

[PMApsy]

Hello beachbaby,

Thanks for replying! And thanks for the kind words, but... I'm not going through a tough time dear! I'm just looking for info!

Actually, I have different info. What happens during a natural pregnancy is that the follicle (which is the sac), after it breaks and releases the egg, folds inward on itself and becomes the corpus luteum. It then starts producing progesterone and estrogen. It's what maintains the endometrium until the placenta is fully formed and can take charge.

Given that they suck all the follicles out during ER, no corpus luteums are left behind and they cannot fulfil their role for estrogen and progesterone production. So our progesterone intake is more than just an extra measure of caution; it's actually a chemical replacement of the corpus luteum. Implantation and endometrium preservation depend on it.

I had blood tests done when the clinic took charge of me. Some were done to check my hormone levels on day 3 of my cycle, but there were others. I bet they checked my thyroid at that time, but I'll sure double-check given what the embryologist from the UK recommended today.

However, what you said reminded me that, yes, on a natural cycle, I'll have my corpus luteum, which will produce progesterone already, plus the one I'll take. Somehow, that sounds better, lol! That way, I can be a little more assured that I have the right levels. Alas, my clinic has lower success rates with FET. Some people say people get better results with FET because it's more natural, some say the successes rates are lower in most clinics given that the freezing-thawing traumatizes the embies... ah, well. We'll try and see. It's always case-by-case anyway!

Take care my dear, and good luck to you!

Sophie

[FionaA]

Hi Sophie

On my first Fresh cycle which resulted in a BFN i got AF well in advance of the test date and while I was taking progesterone. I asked my clinic about it as I was under the impression that progesterone stopped AF, but I was told that that is not the case. I have to admit that I am still a bit confused in relation to the issue as I have heard conflicting accounts on that issue.

As far as the tests that you are to take go, I was tested for all of those things prior to starting IVF.

My thyroid was borderline underactive but stablised. I'm not sure if thyroid has anything to do with implantation but it can have an effect on the well being of the foetus.

I also had borderline clotting issues and as a result wore pressure stockings at retrieval. I'm not 100% sure but I think clotting issues do have an effect on whether a pregnancy can be sustained. I think a lot of people who have biochemical pregnancies often find they have clotting issues.

NK cells I think relate to implantation but that is one that I don't know much about at all.

Good luck with your next cycle.

Fee

[PMApsy]

Hi Fee! Long time no see! Thanks for replying!

I left a message at my clinic yesterday and they told me the same thing basically. They said that, before, they prescribed 150mg die of Prometrium (now it's 200mg) and that technically, it's even too much progesterone, so my BFNs are really not because the dosage or administration mode weren't correct. It was worth checking anyway.

As for AF, I'm as puzzled as you. They also said it was common to start bleeding before... but you'll read everywhere that it's a sudden DROP in progesterone that triggers AF in a natural cycle. Now how come suddenly it has no relation, it's a mystery. But I'll sure ask the question to the doctor I'll see in August.

Other than that, as I said, I had blood tests done before I started IVF, so I want to make sure those things were checked because I don't recall being told so (but he didn't go into those details, he just said everything looked good).

Good luck to you, too my dear!

Sophie

[FionaA]

Hi Sophie, yes, long time no see!

I would definately check out what tests you had. Whatever you had it apepars that you passed with flying colours. If you're anything like me you would have had about 20 vials of blood taken (ouch) and I'm sure that they would have tested comprehensively but id doesn't hurt to check what was tested for. As I've learned thoughtout this process, knowledge is power! (although knowledge also causes me a bit too much stress at times too!)

Fee

[stressball]

Hi Pam,
I am a BFN sufferer from my first Ivf. My embyos were 5 day blast and all my basic tests were normal. Our only isssue is moderate male factor. To cut the story short, my problem is also implantation issue. I also aked my RE about these tests and he said that those tests are mostly done for people with misca. and chemicals, which was not my case. He did ask me to get my throid tested by a good endocrinologist b4 my FET in Aug. My thyroid tests done in May 2006 were normal.

Last but not the least, Hang in there. May be our BFPs are dated for Aug-Sept. Let me know when u get those tests done.

Baby dust,
Sanya

[Quinny]

Hi Guys

Was just wondering, i am on Icsi and I have only be told to use 1 400mg of Progesterone, (Cyclogest) yet I am reading a lot of peole are taking 2? Please advise if there is anyone out there who is only taking 1 as I only took 1 last time and had a BFN!!!

Thanks for your advice x

Quinny x

[nic4]

Hi Quinny,

Im currently nearly 35 weeks pg with one baby after my 4th ivf attempt,but with all my cycles i too took cyclogest,it was one pessary a day at bedtime,with my other 3 failed cycles i took my period 2 days before blood test day.

Not sure if this will help or not,but loads of sticky baby dust to you all and i hope your dreams come true..

Love..Nicola..xx

[Quinny]

Hi Nicola

Thanks for that, I am happier now as I seemd to be the only one on one pessarie and was gettting worried, I had failed Icsi in Nov 06 so wishing this time around it will be different, this site is great as you think you are alone with no-one to talk to as I don't like ringing the hospital and asking questions but it is nice that real people are experiencing the same as you and can relate to your issues.

Not long for you to go, do you know what you having?

All the best for the birth, and best wishes to you and DH

Quinny x

[nic4]

Hi Quinny,

I found this site,just as i realised my second attempt was not going to work
The women on these boards have been a life saver for me.Like you i dont like to bother my clinic too much as they were always so busy,so every time i had a question or just needed advice i just logged on here and asked!!
I dont know what we're having,we were just so happy to be pregnant that we decided we didnt want to spoil the surprise.I actually got my section date from my consultant yesterday,so im having this baby on 30th july,im so excited.

Good Luck with your treatment,i so hope it works for you this time,if you have any questions or just wanna talk,you know where i am...

Love Nicola..xx