Ghost...and those who get E2 levels during the 2ww.

[TammyS]

Ghost,
I got an extremely faint positive on a hpt at 11dpo...the hpt's remained nearly the same color for 4 days....and I had a beta this morning at 14dpo...and it was 7.0...exactly what I figured it would be (yes, I can detect it that low on a FRER by taking the test apart and holding it up to the light). E2 level was only a 53 and progesterone level was fine at 39.49.

I begged the nurse at my new clinic (same doc though) to run an estrogen and progesterone level as well...as they dont believe in doing so during the 2ww or ever...according to my old clinic (whom never asked my doc...and just simple told me no). I am on 2 patches and 2 mg pio shots a day...and they feel that it is enough for anyone...even though I have told them in the past that I have some known hormones issues. Anyhow, I am sooo upset, because as I suspected...my E2 level IS wayyy too low to maintain a pregnancy!!!! I have lost 4 babies now in the past 9.5 months because no one would listen to me!!!

Is it too late to save my baby? I strongly believe that it has been a beta of about 7.0 since Monday and it could still be holding on. Besides...who knows if there were 2 and we lost 1 while another was growing (we put back 4). If there is even a 1% chance...what now? 2mg Estrace pills 2-3x's a day? I just added 2 more patches (for a total of 4) to my belly...should I add more?

The nurse is going to talk to the doc just as soon as they get the results faxed to them and can go over everything. I called in to my lab and got the results myself, which is how I know all of this already and my doc dont. What should I request, do, say to my doc? What would your clinic do at this point and in the future?

For those of you who get their E2 levels done during the 2ww...what were your numbers...if they were low? What did they do? Were they able to save the baby if you were pregnant?

Thank you.

[riogirl71]

Tammy - I am so sorry you are going through this, I have to run but I dug up my 16dpo levels and for E2 it was over 3,200 but I also had OHSS and it started with twins so that was way the opposite, as far as progesterone my nurse said anything over 10 was good. Again huge hugs and I hope the baby makes it, think of Corny!

I will write more soon!

[annashope]

Tammy I am so so sorry I am sad and angry with you. I am not sure what the normal range is for 2ww but during my IVF when we got our BFP my E2 levels were 1300 and my progesterone was 28 but as Rio mentioned anything over 10 in progesterone is good. With that said I am not sure what you should do but I will continue to pray for you and your little one. Big hugs

[Ghost]

Ghost,
I got an extremely faint positive on a hpt at 11dpo...the hpt's remained nearly the same color for 4 days....and I had a beta this morning at 14dpo...and it was 7.0...exactly what I figured it would be (yes, I can detect it that low on a FRER by taking the test apart and holding it up to the light). E2 level was only a 53 and progesterone level was fine at 39.49.

I begged the nurse at my new clinic (same doc though) to run an estrogen and progesterone level as well...as they dont believe in doing so during the 2ww or ever...according to my old clinic (whom never asked my doc...and just simple told me no). I am on 2 patches and 2 mg pio shots a day...and they feel that it is enough for anyone...even though I have told them in the past that I have some known hormones issues. Anyhow, I am sooo upset, because as I suspected...my E2 level IS wayyy too low to maintain a pregnancy!!!! I have lost 4 babies now in the past 9.5 months because no one would listen to me!!!

Is it too late to save my baby? I strongly believe that it has been a beta of about 7.0 since Monday and it could still be holding on. Besides...who knows if there were 2 and we lost 1 while another was growing (we put back 4). If there is even a 1% chance...what now? 2mg Estrace pills 2-3x's a day? I just added 2 more patches (for a total of 4) to my belly...should I add more?

The nurse is going to talk to the doc just as soon as they get the results faxed to them and can go over everything. I called in to my lab and got the results myself, which is how I know all of this already and my doc dont. What should I request, do, say to my doc? What would your clinic do at this point and in the future?

For those of you who get their E2 levels done during the 2ww...what were your numbers...if they were low? What did they do? Were they able to save the baby if you were pregnant?

Thank you.

The lowest limit for E2 is not established. Many clinics don't bother with it. Those that do track it try to keep it above 150 or 200. My clinic monitors it and prescribes supplements. We would be supplementing your cycle, and/or increasing the supplements of any pregnant patient with E2 of only 53. But we are not sure it matters all that much. Studies have failed to find relevancy between E2 supplements and success, although they have found a relationship with bleeding (more likely without the E2 supplements).

I am more concerned about what you are saying about your hCG levels.

[TammyS]

Thanks Ghost.

From everything I have read...you have to have much higher levels of estrogen for the baby to continue to grow...however, if by chance this isnt the problem...then what other reasons could there be? What can we test for or do...blood clotting issues?

My egg quality has diminished since having Zach, sure...but why is it that I have no problem getting pregnant...but end up losing every pregnancy either just a few days after implantation or within 1-2 weeks. My retrievals go pretty well and my embryos aren't too bad really...we usually get 5-7 and usually transfer 4-5 embryos. I just dont get it. I do great...till just after implantation.

[annashope]

Tammy have you had that blood clotting test? After my M/c my doc insisted on running the "clotting factor test" and doing the "antibody screen" both cause early m/c

[TammyS]

I mentioned it to the nurse about wanting blood clotting testing done...and she sounded shocked when she asked if I had had it done already at the old clinic and I said no, never. I will be sure to mention that I want the antibody screen as well. Any other tests? Thank you so much.

Also for those who get the E2 level checks during the 2ww...on what days do you get them done? I read online that someone said days 5 and 9...how about for you?

[riogirl71]

Tammy - have you had an HSG lately? Maybe if you have a slight infection it could be leaking fluid to your uterus and essentially "poisoning" the embryo... other than that I really can't think of any reason why you get them to implant but it does not go through... Anton on the board got some other genetic test done, maybe you can ask her. Best of luck Tammy - we are all praying for you.

[to_have_fun08]

Tammy - have you ever thought have having the embryos genetically tested before transfer? I know they all look good when you transfer but a lot of times the most awesome looking embryo's can have something genetically wrong especially as we get older. I know it sucks getting older. Hope you don't have to worry and that your beta continues to rise.


Chris

[lou71]

Tammy, my clinic doesn't test during the 2ww. But they do test at the time of beta draw on 14 dpo. My progesterone was > 40 (that's how the lab reported it), and E2 was 803. I was taking 1ml (50 mg) PIO daily and Estrace 2mg three times a day which I have weaned off as of Monday this week. I'm no longer on any estrogen supplement. I was told it wasn't needed any longer.

[TammyS]

Rio...I just had another hsg done in October. Everything was good. I do have polyps/fibroids...but they keep saying that they're fine. When you say an infection...are you saying from the hsg or ?

Chris...Doc says that since we arent picking and choosing among embryos and are putting all 4 or 5 back everytime...that there is no point in it. Besides we could never afford it. We have insurance, but it doesnt cover PGD.

Lou...Yeah, from everything I have been reading online and all of your numbers so far...they have been 803 and above! I can't believe mine is sooo low. There was one girl who reported a low E2 level like mine and they immediately supplemented more for it...and her baby lived. But, her beta was higher.

I cant believe that I STILL havent heard from my nurse or doctor! It's been 4 hours and you would think that they would rush it...so that I can drive an hour to a specialty pharmacy to pick up estrace or more patches...before they close! It's 3:16 here!

[babydreamz]

Tammy, I hope your beta continues to rise. My prayers are with you.

[TammyS]

SD...Thank you and very interesting read.

Babydreamz...Thank you.

So the doc called and he really doesnt believe in E2 or progesterone levels because nothing has really been proven that it matters. I told him that I dont care whether it has been proven that I want to take a bunch of estrogen and at least try. I need to at least know that I tried. I also told him that if this baby dont make it that I want that testing done and he agreed...and also to monitor and give me extra estrogen in the future during the 2ww.

My DH is heading to the specialty pharmacy to pick up more patches and estrace 2mg ...and the doc said to do the 2mg estrace pills "vaginally" 3x's a day to get quicker absorption. Plus I have 4 vivelle dot .1mg patches on now...although doc thinks I have on 2, I think. I hope that is enough since my doc doesnt even believe in this. Ghost?

[riogirl71]

The HSG would have picked up any partail blocakge so you should be fine there. I am really at a loss, I am sorry I really don't understand. I am praying your bean sticks!

[Ghost]

Thanks Ghost.

From everything I have read...you have to have much higher levels of estrogen for the baby to continue to grow...however, if by chance this isnt the problem...then what other reasons could there be? What can we test for or do...blood clotting issues?

My egg quality has diminished since having Zach, sure...but why is it that I have no problem getting pregnant...but end up losing every pregnancy either just a few days after implantation or within 1-2 weeks. My retrievals go pretty well and my embryos aren't too bad really...we usually get 5-7 and usually transfer 4-5 embryos. I just dont get it. I do great...till just after implantation.

Perhaps you are one that really needs the supplements. Or maybe it's some other factor. Genetic causes are usually blamed for pregnancy losses, but we know there are more causes than mere genetics.