Information regarding Chinese herbal medicines

sue e · Post by **sue e** » Fri Oct 07, 2005 5:24 pm

Hi ladies,

Just found this post on the CARE buletin board and thought it may be of interest to a few ladies here.

sue e xxx

We have recently seen a number of couples who had unexpectedly poor fertilisation following IVF/ICSI having previously had good fertilisation rates.

Close questioning revealed in these cases that the patients had recently started taking Chinese Herbal medicines and these were the only identifiable changes in their cycles.

Recent advice from the Committee for Safety of medicines has highlighted the variability in quality of ingredients in these medicines and, more worryingly, on occasions high levels of heavy metal and other toxic residues.

It is therefore CARE policy to advise patients NOT to take ANY Chinese herbal medicines in the run up or during the treatment cycle as these could seriously affect the outcome of the cycle.

Please will you also ensure that CARE are informed of ANY additional medication/supplements you are taking during treatment

k · Post by k » Fri Oct 07, 2005 7:38 pm

Hi Sue

I was really surprised when I just read your post. My DH started doing accupuncture/chinese herbs approx 1 month prior to us starting IVF. They did a sperm test on him approx 1 month later and his count had reduced to (I think) 0.5 million compared to 2 million for his last test (Although this was a couple of years before). His motility had increased though. We just presumed his count had declined over time and the herbs etc just hadnt had time to take affect (as it takes approx 100 days I think for sperm to be produced). As it happens, they used DH's sperm frozen prior to his chemotherapy in the end, so we never found out what his count etc was like 3 months after starting his treatment. These herbs were specifically to help improve his count/motility (as prescribed by an Oriental practitioner) so is this article directed at specific herbs such as these or not? Thanks for posting this info. It at least makes us think before we just go ahead with the treatment and can maybe do more research.
Love kim

sue e · Post by **sue e** » Fri Oct 07, 2005 7:58 pm

Hi Kiim,

It seems to be all chinese herbal remedies that care have stopped patients using. I guess its because they dont know exactly what each one may contain, so many variations.

take care

love

sue e xx

leigh · Post by **leigh** » Fri Oct 07, 2005 8:23 pm

Thanks for info Sue

Started acupuncture in September and he gave me chinese herbs to take 3 times a day. Only taken them once a day and missed some out. Won't be getting any more.

I am at CARE Sheffield so will tell them about it.

I don't think they will have affected me as didn't take many or how I should have.
Fingers crossed

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Terri2 · Post by **Terri2** » Fri Oct 07, 2005 8:52 pm

its hard to know with this one........
my friend has been trying for 3 years. Her husband had 3% morphology, this went up after taking zinc but still no pregnancy.
He started taking chinese herbs a couple of months ago, she took them for a month and then got pregnant that month. coincidence? maybe, maybe not. I guess we'll never know.
I'm on them at the moment and not sure whether to continue. I think I will not let my dh start them though after what you have said.

sue e · Post by **sue e** » Sat Oct 08, 2005 8:14 am

It is hard knowing what to do for the best as we are told so many different things, we just have to go with what we believe to be right.

wishing you all the best xx

JackieT · Post by **JackieT** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 11:00 am

hi all
this is one of the questions that my clinic have decided to sit on the fence about. we have had 2 goes at ivf. first one no herbs and a bfn 2nd one herbs and a bfp. now we are going through fet and are in a dillema will we or wont we.
also took my herbs until one day told my gynae that i was and she said stop straight away we did and the baby was born that w.end.[27+5}
god only knows there are lots of other factors, but who knows?? certianely no one ive asked can answer me!!!
i would love if anyone elce has stories on herbs,
take care love jackiexxx

cmg · Post by **cmg** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 1:50 pm

I took Chinese herbs in my first, ill-fated IVF cycle and have never known whether they played a part in what happened to me. To cut a long story short, I ended up in intensive care following a brain seizure brought on by my sodium level plummeting. This was to do with drinking too much water - it's a well known side effect and I was drinking 6 or 7 litres a day. This is way too much water (though I was doing it on the clinic's instructions) but the thing is, other people at the clinic drank the same amount and this didn't happen to them. So maybe there was something different about me or maybe it was the herbs. One gynae I spoke to, at a different clinic, immediately blamed the herbs, but frankly I think conventional medicine will often blame complementary medicine.

My gut feel is that the herbs had nothing to do with it, but when I did my second IVF this summer I didn't take any just in case. And, incidentally, I didn't drink more than 3 litres of water a day - my new clinic can't see why it would ever have been appropriate to do so.

I'm doing unmedicated FET in November and I had a big bag of herbs delivered this morning. Because there's no drugs for them to interfere with I feel quite confident taking them this time. And I trust my acupuncturist.

So hard to know what to do for the best though.

Caroline

em · Post by em » Wed Oct 12, 2005 11:43 am

Dear Sue
Thank you so much for this, it is very interesting...and had crossed my mind too. As my gynacologist said, no medicine is without side effects, not even chinese, and she recommended acupuncture only (ie she is not against alternative therapy altogether!) Those herbs are strong stuff remember!
I really am sure that a good diet of plenty of protein, the boring old 2 litres of water supported by a good mulit vitamin and fish oil/omega 3 is paramount over and above any chinese medicine. These natural aides can only suppliment your treatment, not conflict with it. I know that Zita West steers well clear of chinese medicine too, in her book she says that their implications remain unclear.
Thank you though again and good luck
Me 32 DP 33 (severe male factor)
1st ICSI July 05 -ive

sue e · Post by **sue e** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 4:20 pm

Hi em,

I have never tried any of the herbal remedies, but thought the info for some people may explain why they may of had possible poor fertilisation. The process is so hard as no-one is 100% sure what to do for the best. We just try things and move on to the next if it dosen't work.

Wishing you all the best

Love

sue e xx

Sand · Post by **Sand** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 6:43 pm

Sue - This is spooky, 'cos I was just going to post exactly the same thing ! I was in Care, Manchester yesterday, and saw the same notice.

However, whilst I was there .... I also mentioned to the consultant that I'd been having acupuncuture - and since then my AF cycle length had become erratic, plus the blood loss is now minimal. He actually said something that meant acupuncture healing was all in the mind, and that it couldn't have any bearing on my cycle .... I suppose it's whatever you believe ..

Sandra x