3 day vs. 5 day

kelleyg · Post by **kelleyg** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 12:06 am

jackie hunny its going to grow and grow !!!!

Lbebe · Post by **Lbebe** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 2:08 am

I just had my transfer done in day 3 2nd of Jun, two 8 cell, one 7 cell, rest of 2 ( one 9 cell grade one, one 6 cell grade two ) have to discard, they didn't made it to day 5 to blast, was a little disapointed today when i received the news from my Dr.

According to Dr. that going to blast only improves implantation by providing for embryo selection in the lab so that only the "best" survive. However, in point of fact some embryos that would never go to blast in the lab incubators could create a baby in yours!

Was glad we did on day 3 transfer though

Baby dust to everyone!!!!!!!!

Ghost · Post by **Ghost** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 2:36 am

AuntyPebbles wrote:Hi Ghost,
i was hoping youd have some insite for us... i have a couple of questions though...what do you mean that changing from doing 3 day to 5 day is tough surley they just hold on to the embies a little longer?? my DR and clinic do both 3 and 5 day depending on how many eggs you have

i think if i lived in UK where you can only have two transfered i would insist on 5 day or make sure i had a clinic that did 5 day...im lucky that if i had more i can at least have more transfered giving a better shot of getting the good one

thanks Debz

Some clinics do mainly day 2, day 3, or day 5/day6. Some do a variety, like yours. But those that do just one type of transfer have trained their staff to handle schedules and embryology that way. If their habit is day 3 transfer, then they won't stock the pricey blastocyst culture media. The blast culture media I know about requires a change at day 3, as embryos must be moved from one to the other to continue growth. Their front office and coordinators will likely have set rules for how to set appointments and instruct patients. There is also a different approach to assessing blastocysts than 8-cell embryos, and the embryologists might have almost all of their experience in one or the other.

Not impossible to change on the fly, but you don't want to be the clinic's first blastocyst transfer.

If your clinic does both, that's a sign of a good clinician.

Note: Day 4 can be done, but there's not much advantage in it, because the embryos have a form (morula) that is harder to assess for quality. The expanded blastocyst is probably the most informative stage. However, it is argued by many that synthetic culture media are not as good as the natural environment. Probably true. So they feel that earlier transfers are better.

Lbebe · Post by **Lbebe** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 3:08 am

If some clinic don't transfer patients on day 3 who have poor embryos and decide to go to blast then most will never have an ET, their report on preg rates as preg/ET these poor prognosis patients effectively disappear from their stats and their clinic looks better on paper

........

Pretty cynical

huh?

Ghost · Post by **Ghost** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 4:18 am

Lbebe wrote:If some clinic don't transfer patients on day 3 who have poor embryos and decide to go to blast then most will never have an ET, their report on preg rates as preg/ET these poor prognosis patients effectively disappear from their stats and their clinic looks better on paper ........

Pretty cynical huh?

That would only partly work. The standard clinic reports show success rates per cycle (stimulation start), per retrieval, and per transfer. The strategy you describe would indeed boost the per transfer rates, but would not help the per cycle and per retrieval rates.

But you are correct that some clinics think this way. There are many artificial means of boosting apparent success rates without actually improving the chance of any given patient having a baby. For example, it's common enough to screen patients based on day 3 FSH. Some clinics won't allow you to go therough a cycle if your FSH is over 10, or 9, or even 8. If yours is higher, you have to go donor or go elsewhere. They only take good responders.

jackoa21 · Post by **jackoa21** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:52 am

well than based on this information I will say I am happy we did a 3 day.. I think this whole process is mind boggling..
baby dust to all...

CarolynB · Post by **CarolynB** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 9:01 pm

Jackie

Just wanted to post for you as this is an area that I have been reading HUGE amounts about because I like you was wondering about why certain cycles were adopted at particular clinics.

I had a 2 day transfer. That is the standard at Hammersmith where I am although they will do 5 day blasts.

So we asked the consultant at our session what the logic was. His response was that with my 13 eggs of which 8 fertilised. He said that if he went to 5 day then I might end up with 1 (if I was lucky 2). He said that the way they do it - he put 2 back fresh but we had 6 frozen. He said that meant from my cycle of all the drugs he might be able to get me & dh 2 FETs if we were lucky when we thaw. He said all stats are for 1 Fresh Cycle. He felt that 1 Fresh + 2 FETs would give slightly better success that 1 X 5 day blast.

He also claimed that the stats are 'played' with by clinics.

Must say that if this does not work I will push him harder for a later transfer especially if I do a fresh cycle again and produce a good number of eggs. Just to satisfy myself that we have tried everything. If he will not do a 5 day blast from me then I am determined that we will move somewhere else that will. Understand that they have to transfer your notes - cannot not do that for you.

Hope that this helps. Your little one is sticking so not sure why you'll need all this info.

Love Carolyn xxx

jackoa21 · Post by **jackoa21** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 9:15 pm

Caroyln
Thank you so much (as always for helping me) I agree with you that it makes more sense to have the 1 fresh and 2 fet vs only 1 day.. I just wish we would have had more options.. I think any decent clinic would have all only done a 3 day with my one little embie..

You are right however I will only need this information for later in life... power of positive thinking right

Your lap is coming up quickly I dont know if you read my post but dont let them tell you your gallbladder is huge.. If you did not read it I can repost... It ended up being ok but at the time they scared the daylights out of me...

CarolynB · Post by **CarolynB** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 9:30 pm

Jackie

I had forgotten that post but now remember what you said - did sound v scary for you.

Thanks for reminding me, I will go back & read when it is a bit closer to my op so I am up to speed. I am viewing it very positively. Can only help them find out more about me.

Have been trying not to think too much about it or ivf generally (that means not 24 by 7 - just 23 by 7

!!!!!!!!!!!!) or driving my dh totally mad by wanting to talk about it too much. Trying to focus on some 'normal' things if we can & the fact that we are going on holiday on Saturday for a week away together. Yippee!!!!!!!! Last real holiday was over a year ago for our honeymoon so will be good for us to get away together.

It means that I will miss your news as dh banning me taking lap top on holiday with me (quite right too - have taken in past and ended up doing too much work & not enough holiday). Will be thinking of you & your little one.

Take good care.
Carolyn xx

jackoa21 · Post by **jackoa21** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 9:40 pm

Good for DH tell him we all agree. You are a constant becon of support and strength for all of us but you deserve some time for just you and DH..
Just relax and enjoy your well deserved vacation.. we will all be here when you get back.. Hopefully with some very positive posts...
take care and have a very fun time.. When do you leave again

3 day vs. 5 day

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