Awaiting Treatment

[wishfull27]

Mir/Angel/Ang/Sophie/Rennee

Hope you all have a fab weekend will catch you all later xxx

[Sara30]

Hi becky

You are not mad not at all, I have those self same thoughts like you, in the car or falling asleep. I would go out and clean the plants too, I keep going out trying to dig up my rose bush because I want it in a pot so I can look after it not in the ground where I can't get to it properly, but the ground is still frozen and I am frightened of not doing it properly and it doesn't survive so I have to wait for it to thaw a bit then I think silly woman stop being so stupid. The bush has become a focus of my grief, so no your not mad, not at all. When I lost my baby so many years ago I had to go to my cousins wedding on the day he was due, but nobody knew that because nobody knew I was pregnant and had lost my baby. I went and had some conselling to help me through the wedding and she really helped me grieve for my baby and talk about my feelings in a safe place, I echo what Carolyn says and if you think this might help you then perhaps give it a go, maybe your past grief for your parents is also coming to the surface. I don't know I am not trained in this sort of thing, Sophie may be able to help you better.
I am thinking of you......

Lee xx

[Sara30]

Hi Carolyn, I am glad you enjoyed your treatments, Hope they have set you up nicely for a relaxing weekend!!

Mine will be spent painting our wine soaked dining room!!

hope you are home and relaxed Sophie, hi to everyone elsexxxxxxxx

[Welshgirl38]

Hi Ladies xxx

Thank u for ur advise, i think u are right. DH an i have already talked about going to councelling, more for me than him - not sure if he wants to attend, but thats ok with me .... but i think i need to go somewhere to vent off. Do they allow u to cry, cos i dont think i could go there without crying ... what if i get into a state an cant stop - they will put me in the looney bin lol...

Carolyn, what i meant to explain about my parents was that - i didnt greive for my dad - he died when i was 6mths old, so i never knew him or had him about u know ... yes i do feel sad i never got to know him, but i have never cried over him. How can i cry over someone i never knew! I dont even know where he is buried, as mu mum moved from where i was born, and she never took me back to her hometown really (not that i remember anyhow) Then she died when i was 9 - just a few weeks before christmas (i never got a chance to ask her those things u know) and yes i greived for her - but not like the way im greiving now. I cried for my mum - but it was done in an almost childish way - i begged her to come home, that i wouldnt misbehave if she came back, an when she didnt i blamed her for leaving me. I cried mostly when i missed her - but not cos she had died (if this makes sense) that came later on, and the gulit i felt then for blaming her for leaving me was awful. But i learned to move on from that, realising that i was only a child, and a child cant help the way he or she feels when it come to grief, they are confused, one min my mum was there - next she wasnt - and (this is gonna sound awful) all the things she promised me for that christmas, all the sindy dolls i wanted - i never got cos she wasnt there to buy them for me ... an i didnt like her much for that - how selfish is that then??? Obvisouly now i understand it must have been so hard for her, she had cancer, and from what i can gather from the stories my brothers tell - she didnt know how bad it was, a mth before she died she wrote a letter to her brother (i have a copy of it off my Uncle) saying how excited she was to be getting a room of her own at the hosp, and a telly too - what she didnt realise is that she was being put there cos she didnt have much longer left ... she must have been so excited about spending christmas with us ... instead she was brought home 2 days before she died, and i only got to see her the once, to kiss her goodnight, and thats the last time i remember seeing her...

I hope none of u think im heartless, cos i loved my mother more than anything in the world, i have pictures of her still all around my house, i have tapes of her singing, so i can still hear her voice when i feel the need, i have her favorite dress that my brothers kept for me all those years ago, i an remember her wearing it too - what i meant was that the grief im feeling now, doesnt feel like the grief i had when my mum died ... its different - it physically hurts when i get upset an into a state where i cant stop crying ... or maybe i dont remember crying like this for my mum, im really not sure ... Oh heck, this has gone on a bit, im sorry ladies u know me tho, once i start i cant stop

Im just so scared at the moment of having another shot at this, and it not working - how will i go on then. I think Brian has only agreed to go again cos he can see the state im in and what will happen if i dont, but he admitted to me yesterday that he is scared of what it will do to me if it doesnt work .... i thought i was a strong person, could take the knock backs life shoves in our way - but im not really. Ive just crumbled at what has happened, and i dont know how to move on from it ....

Anyhow - im off to clean the plant lol ... it gives me some comfort knowing that im looking after it. An one of the buds is starting to open ... i cant wait to see it in full bloom ....i have some daffodils to put in pots too, they have been sitting on the bench in the garage since Nov an have started to spurt up in the nets haha!

Thanks ladies for letting me talk here ... i think i wud have signed myself into the looney bin by now otherwise ...

Xxxxx to u all .... xxxxx

[Welshgirl38]

Opps - double post soweeeey xxx

[PMApsy]

Hi Becky,

I'm going to cover my butt here... I truly care about you sweetie, and it breaks my heart to read your posts. I'm glad you trust us, and that you still come to us to share all that. I appreciate your authenticity, it's so precious. In the past, you've told me that you appreciated when I gave you my honest impressions... and that's why I feel compelled to do the same. Those are just opinions and, not knowing you personally, I might be completely wrong of course.

I'm sorry you're still feeling that way, and I truly hope things will start healing, a little at a time. I can't encourage you enough to make an apt with a licensed psychologist (what you call a counsellor might not have the proper training; here, they don't). I'm particularly worried at your next tmt that is approaching really fast, and I don't think you're in the proper state of mind to give IVF another try right now, especially if you're still feeling like this in April. Delaying your attempt for a couple of months might be the right thing to do, especially given that it would be your last try. You want to be in a good place, psychologically, do make that kind of attempt.

Yes, as you said, you need to move on, and dwelling on your pain isn't going to make you. Cleaning your tree, spending time reliving your miscarriage in all its ugly details, thinking about all the baby clothes you bought, that's all dwelling. It's a normal reaction at first, but when it goes on and on for weeks and months, it's making things worse because the healing process can drag indefinitely as a result. A licensed psychologist could help you process those events in a more productive way and break the negative cycle you're in at the moment. Those memories will not go away, and it's okay to keep them in a special place, only in a way that doesn't make you break down in tears anymore. That's what healing and moving on is about.

Of course "they" allow you to cry; I use to say that my kleenex box is my worktool! Of course, they won't send you to the looney bin! You keep asking us if you're mad, as if there were only two possible psychological states: crazy and healthy. It doesn't work that way; everything is on a continuum between the two extremes. Of course you're not crazy; chase that thought out of your head, and keep it there!

Carolyn mentioned something important when she talked about grieving your mother. You're right, the grief is not the same. But there seems to be one very recurrent theme in the way you react to things, and it's your tendency to feel guilty; it's also the typical answer you seem to give to the "why me?" question (i.e. because I didn't deserve it/must have done something wrong). Lots of your reactions, thoughts, interpretations and behaviors seem guilt-based to me. It might be a good idea to adress that in therapy, because it would not only allow you to deal differently with those two events, but with the other hard times that are bound to happen in your life in the future.

Other than that, I just want you to know that I'm thinking of you and sending you lots of warm hugs. Miscarriages are not easy, especially the first time... they make you learn the hard way that getting a BFP is just one more milestone on the journey, and that you're still very far from its destination. I wish you didn't have to go through that sweetie...

Love,

Sophie xxox

[PMApsy]

Hi ladies,

Wow, you guys posted like crazy since Wednesday! There's no way I can catch up with everything, but I'll do my best.

Thanks for your messages; the convention went well, and it gave me a lot to think about. So much, in fact, that I couldn't fall asleep yesterday. Good side is I finished Cesar Millan's book ! We're still applying his principles to our dogs, and they keep improving. It's very exciting!

***WARNING***
Extra-long discussion about work decisions, so just read if you feel like it!

That being said, I'm now faced with a big career decision. It would be very long to give you all the details that make the situation complex, but here are the highlights. The hospital I work in has a big research center. But in Montreal, there are no less than 4 universities for about a 2 million population. That's way too much. As a result, the competition is very ferocious. I was hired as a clinician, but they hired me because I did a PhD in clinical AND research work. We are a new generation of psychologists, very concerned about using empirically-based interventions, about doing research to contribute to the field, and so on.

However, the academic field is quite crazy. Basically, it's "publish or perish". In order to publish, you need to do research. In order to do research, you need money. In order to get money, you need to publish a lot. See the cycle here? That's why so many university professors publish loads of crap in order to have more impressive CVs and get more money, and improve their status, and so on.

In addition to all that, the hospital considers all its psychologists as employees, not as professionals like doctors or pharmacists for example. My pay is decent compared to the general population, but ridiculous given my academic training. I'm not complaining too much, because I'm extremely lucky to have a permanent job with social advantages such as a paid maternity leave. However, when I apply for funds, I'm only considered as an employee, not as a proper researcher, and there's no way I'll get approved if it stays that way; the competition is too ferocious.

I see that my post is already too detailed; there would be more to say, but I'll stop here. Basically, I'm at a crossroads. I have to decide if I want to do an academic career or not. If I chose the academic career, I can say goodbye to my weekends and evenings for the next years, maybe the next decade. I'm not kidding. My father's wife chose that path and is very career-oriented and she always brings tons of work at home. She wakes up at 5am to work. She goes to a minimum of 7-10 international conventions EACH YEAR. That's very glamorous, but I don't need to tell you she hasn't been very present, or always stressed. Same for my thesis advisor; his wife keeps him on a short leash; he has to leave home at 8am and be back by 5pm, but as a result, he spends his evenings with his family... and starts working again from 10pm to 1am. He's a bit hyperactive, so it suits him perfectly. He has huge recognition in his field, and recently raked 2 millions in subventions.

But I don't want my life to look like that. I want my interests to be more varied; I like flamenco, teaching meditation, and all the Martha Stewart stuff you tease me about! And I want to be there for my son. I want to play with him and do his homework with him without feeling overstressed. I want to take care of my dogs properly, too, and that takes time.

My dilemma is that I want to do research too, and have a certain degree of autonomy. If I don't make my decision now, I will lose that opportunity forever. I have 5 years, after I graduate from my Ph.D., to get a "junior researcher" funds. If I don't get that, then forget it. I'll never publish enough, and I'll have to rely on donations from pharmaceutical companies. As a result, my research will always be unstable. The hospital started hiring psychologists like me without having the proper structure to make them work properly. I don't have a secretary, I don't have research assistants. We are a university hospital, but the school of psychology there does not even want to give us the title of "assistant professor" even if we take over a dozen of their psychology residents for a whole year, each year, and train them clinically. Same for research assistants; students want to come and work for free to get experience, but the university apparently wants to keep them on site and with the school's researchers. And lastly, we could also co-supervise Ph.D. students for their theses... but the university teachers look down on us and are really reluctant to the idea.

To give you an idea, I have started 3 research projects in the last year. I had to stop the first completely because I became pregnant: no research assistant, and I can't sit in the radiology room anymore. The second project was a hassle because I needed 400$ worth in photocopies. Nobody wanted to pay, and the bill ended on my boss' desk when, in fact, I was doing courtesy research for the gynecology-oncology department. The last project? I was able to recruit only 3 patients since October, because some of the nurses just don't cooperate and don't tell me when a new patient will start chemo.

If you don't have a "researcher" title, then your research time is not protected, and you have little authority. Psychologists already struggle with that because of the narcissistic doctors and psychiatrists. And my research life is likely to remain that way if I chose not to pursue an academic career.

I'll give myself some more time to think about all that... but I think the work I have to do is mostly to grieve the academic career I might have had and all its good sides, deal with people's judgements because many people believe in me and told me I would be able to pull it off... and deal with the fact that I'll have to find other ways to do research, and tolerate the fact that I'll have to collaborate with big-shots (some of them will be my colleagues, that will be humbling) and lose some autonomy as a result. I'll make an apt with the psychologist I consulted in 2007; he has training in career counselling as well.
***WARNING OVER***

Other than that, I had a fabulous massage, and I was exfoliated with cocoa-flavored sugar, and now my whole body is sooooooft! What luxury!

Carolyn,
Glad the witch visited you! I hope it's treating you better now that it's started... can you remind me of your protocol from now on?

Angel,
Imaginary friends? LOL Ohhhh isn't that a wee bit sarcastic??? Sorry about all the nightmares... are you sleeping any better now?

Lee,
Closure can have its good and bad sides, it's perfectly normal. It's a weird feeling, seeing people talk less and less about what you went through, not that you necessarily want to hear about it all the time. It will pass, I promise. You have another tmt to look forward to now. How exciting about your childhood friend! I hope you have fun at your dinner!

Angie,
LOL you crazy girl! You always crack me up! What in the world gave you the idea that I'd freak out at your menu? I LOVE eating crap from time to time, it's not a big deal! One of the main reasons I don't eat meat or dairy is because it makes me sick! Stop teasing me about the uncheese!

Miracle,
Hey girlie! Big weekend of studying? I hope not! How is DH's foot?

Have fun watching the superbowl girlies!

Sophie xxox

[beachbaby]

Hi Ladies, hope you are all well, still crazy crazy here. Just completing my official sacking of my dissapeared staff member, we know he's ok as he finally contacted his mum. But she thinks he's having a breakdown. So a few more crazy weeks for us.

Becky, only read the last post big hugs to you. I managed to get councelling through my clinic, but on the NHS to help me come to terms with both the losses and also to help me through my next cycle, i saw her weekly on my own and i also spoke to her on the phone, she called me on the day of transfer and on test day, i also kept in contact throughout the pregnancy. I found her to be a great help and comfort especially through my cycle as i was scared stiff the outcome was going to be the same. The advantage of having someone from the clinic is they are trained to help with the situation we are going through. Hope this helps.

Hi to everyone else, hope you are all doing ok, sorry i am neglecting you all will catch up when i can.

Jayne

[wishfull27]

Morning ladies

How is evryone this snowy morning - yep the UK has ground to a halt because London has had 8" of snow

DH left at 5am for his 2.5 hour commute - he is still like 40 miles from his destination ... even the worrlds biggest car park the M25 is snow bound ... its crazy as all the papers and news has talked about all weekend is how much snow we will get !!! - oh well I am ok jack as working from home toady

Anyone coming out to play ??

[Sara30]

Good Morning

Yep we have snow too Carolyn, not much yet but its coming down quite heavy. DH does he have that long a commute every morning?? Lets hope he gets there soon. The radio said that all the buses in London are cancelled, I know my step daughter is very happy she had exams today, (she is at Kings College in London) and they have been cancelled!!! I am at home today too, getting my hair done this morning so will have to venture out for a couple of hours.

Hi Jayne I am glad your missing person turned up, at least he can be helped now....

Sophie big decisions to make..... I guess its weighing up the good and not so good bits of both decisions and do what feels right for now. Other oportunities will come along in life what ever you decide, it may not be in the way you thought it would be but things do present themselves to you when the time is right.

I have chopped and changed my career path quite a lot over the last few years, remaining working with people but in different ways. Usually when I get to the point of I want to try something different now, something will come along, I have been very lucky in that way. I said to DH last week that if this IVF doesn't work for us then I think I want to go back to doing some nursing work, then on friday I had a meeting with the company I do some nursing work for and they would like me to head up their specialist nurse team for children with profound learning and physical disabilities who also have medical problems. Luckily for me they are willing to wait a few weeks before we start anything off seriously as it depends on whether I get pregnant as to how we manage the group. But then if I do that I have to consider how much time we put into the fostering and as the borough are currently paying for me to do a Diploma in advance fostering well then I can't just stop that either so decisions decisions!!!

But then if I end up having a baby I will probably just want to stay at home and enjoy having a baby.........

Ahhh well life decisions..... I am glad you had a lovely massage have you had a good weekend?

Angie did you enjoy your weekend of eating all that delicious crap??!!?? So who won the game??

Angel, Miracle, hope you both had a good weekend too....

Renee are you still with us???

Becky thinking of you.....

We had a great meal with my childhood friends and my friend doing the IVF has her appt at the end of March so its getting very exciting...... I know she lurks around here on the boards at times as I have pointed her in this direction so you never know she might come and join us at some point.........

Catch you all later.

xxx

[wishfull27]

Hi Lee - bet your looking all glam now with the new haircut!!!

DH works away monday-thursday so sets off early monday morning and comes home thursday lunchtime - it took him 7.5 hours to get tehre this morning he said M25 was unbelievable

Wow - you ahve quite chopped and changed direction career wise - I alaways think if someone said to me what would you do if could change job and am not really sure - enoy the variety and flexibility of what I do - well most of the time!!

Got to venture out in a bit - to phsio - got tennis elbow

Also got an appointment at new clinic locally that is now specialising in treatments to help infertility so do combined package of reflexology/accupuncture and counselling - got initial consultation on wednesday so will see what they have to say!!

Anyone else there ???

[Miracle08]

No fear Miracle is here...

I had a nice weekend. I finished my paper for school and all of my other homework for both classes. I felt quite accomplished afterwards...!!! Sunday DH and I went to his Dad's for dinner. His family is Italian and his Dad made homemade sauce...it was soooo good. Then we went home and relaxed and watched some TV. Dh isnt really into football so the superbowl wasnt a big deal at my house. Now, growing up is a different story. My dad is a huge sports man and the superbowl is a "big deal!"

Sophie: I am so glad you had a really good time at your convention. So you are all soft and relaxed?? I bet you didn't want to go back to work. As for your decisions...well lady, you have your work cut out for you...I would write down the pros and cons for each and see how that is. I dont want to sway you one bit, so I will keep my opinion to myself. Keep us posted on what you decide/thinking to do. By the way, I think your post to Becky was amazing. You are so awesome with words. You hit the nail on the head ladie!!! Any names for baby boy yet?
Give your doggies big hugs for me...sweet babies. My Charlie, his skin infection is back. I am going to call the doctors today. I do not understand why he keeps getting them... it makes me sooo sad. I feel like a bad mommy but I am doing everything i can...

Angie: how was the party and the yummy food? i love crap food... just ask my hubby!!! He isnt a health nut but he loves all veggies and anything that is good for you. I really wish I was more like him. Anything loaded with fat or chocolate is right up my alley... Is your deadline coming quick?

Angel: How are you lovey? How is your DH? You haven't spoke about yourselves...Miss you.

Lee: WOW...you are my idol. You sound so very diverse. I wish I was more like that. I wish I could go to school for nursing. I have reall y thought about it, but I dont think it is for me. Kind of yucky...ya know? How is your girl doing? You are so well written, I love reading your postings. I think you gave Sophie very good advice!!

Beach: Hey lady!!! So sorry to hear about your employee. I mean, I am glad he is found but I wish he wasn't having a break down making your life so hectic. I surely hope things calm down for you. Enjoy those babies love!!!!

Wishful: You crack me up girly! I love that you go to all of these appointments and you find doctors specializing in infertility. GOOD for yoU!!!! Hope all goes well for you today!!

Renee: How are you love? Hope everything is well. HUGS!!

Thinking of you Becky. I think Sophie really did give you the best advice!!!

Ok ladies. I will check back in in a bit.

[PMApsy]

Hello lovely ladies!

Yay, people are posting again! Let me catch up first,

Jayne,
Thanks for checking in with us! Sorry about all the fuss with your ex-employee... gee, those things can drag forever, administratively! You have all my sympathy!

Carolyn,
Wow, sounds like winter really made a mess in your country today! 8 inches of snow, that's not bad! I feel for your husband... the traffic can be quite horrible in situations like this, and going to work and coming back home can take forever! I'm glad you're working from home, you're all warm and safe! Tennis elbow??? Ow, poor thing! That must be pretty painful, I'm sorry! I'm curious about that new clinic; tell us the nasty details when you come back!

Lee,
Your friend would be welcome here, of course! Who knows, you might experience what I experienced... my best friend was doing IUI while I gave FET a second try... and we're 3 weeks apart; she's due in April. I sure wish you the same, it's fun! Gosh, your stepdaughter is going to Kings' College? Oooooooh! I slept there during a tour, I was 18 years old! It's right next to the Big Ben, right? I had a fabulous time there, the building was so beautiful! *sigh* Oh, how I wish I lived closer to the UK... Thanks for taking the time to read my novel. Indeed, I thought I would make a list of pros and cons. Two of the big cons are the time involvement it would ask of me, and of course the fact that all those efforts would not change my salary one bit. I would still be an employee at the hospital, and therefore, underpaid. As for the consequences of my choice, I see what you mean. I'm sure other opportunities will arise later in my life. But if I miss the boat on that one (academic research career), than it's game over, there is no coming back.

Miracle,
Hey girlie! I'm glad you were able to do your homework and paper this weekend (WOW, you rock lady!). Are the topics interesting at least? ooooh that homemade sauce sounds good, can I have the recipe? Thank you so much for what you said about my post to Becky; I found it pretty balsy and I wasn't sure if I should have posted all that... you reassured me a lot. My dogs are now sleeping on the same piece of blankie, two furballs snuggling against each other.... sooooooo adorable. I spent an intensive weekend watching Dog Whisperer (National Geographic) and I learned a lot too. Becoming a real pack leader is not easy; he's very impressive. But there's the fact that the dogs he treats have never met him before; they haven't piled up months and years of interaction with him, compared to their owners. I'm sure it changes things. I'm sure we'll get there though, it's a matter of patience and perseverance. Sorry about Charlie... does it mean that his last tmt didn't work?

As for me, I'm okay. Had a nice weekend; finished the bedding by sewing the elastics on the sheets, and I spent a loooong time cutting washable wet cloths and burping cloths. I washed the whole lot yesterday evening. I'm close to finishing the first knitted blanket, I may be able to assemble it next weekend.

Other than that, I have the flu.. Someone gave it to me at the convention, probably, because after 48h of incubation, tadaaaa! Started with a sore throat yesterday afternoon, then the runny nose and sneezing started. I feel like crap today, but fortunately I can work from home. Had a doctor apt this morning, everything is a-ok. I was sent to a dermatologist who diagnosed an atypical form of eczema on my thumb. My belgian grandma has eczema, so it puts me at high risk. The doc said that a lot of people have their chronic eczema start when they have their first baby, because they're always washing their hands. My grandma complained a LOT about that during my first year of life. Anyway; I was told to wear gloves whenever I could (e.g. when I wash the dishes), use cortisone cream when I have beakouts and use a barrier cream to protect my hands. And I was told to tell DH that he should be the one who does the chores that might irritate my skin... HA! Someone's got a diaper-changing lifetime contract!

Okay ladies, gotta do some work... but I'll be around.

Kissies,

Sophie xxox

[wishfull27]

Hiya - well looks like the whole of Uk has ground to a halt because of a few snowflakes - and they knew it was coming - heyho looks like I will have to cancel my meeting tom and work from home again!!

Sophie - have you made that decision yet ?? - like Lee said sometimes when we make a decision at the time it seems like the right course to take and then something else will take you in a totally different direction .. good luck - I know you will succeed in whatever you decide xx

Mir - am delighted you had a fab wekend and proper Italian food - it just tastes so different when done properely - don't know what they do but it must be some magic ingredient ! Sorry your Charlie is sick again You go girl as well getting all your home work done - I bet you will turn into a right girly swot!!!!

Jayne - hope you got them staff sorted - god my job would be so easy if did not have to deal with employees!!

Becky - hugs honey xxx

Ang - guess still recovering from superbowl and over indulgence in all things bad for us!! or working too darn hard - please come out and play xx

Angel - hope snow not too bad down your neck of the woods - do anything exciting at the weekend ??

lee - looking all glamourous now with the new haircut??

Renee - hiya hon xx

The physio who worked on my elbow today was an evil with an big EEE ***** - iyts killing now and having to type with my left hand cos it hurts soo much

Will be around tom if anyone coming out to play in the day !!!

[chriss]

Hi Mir,
Thanks for checking up on me on the other thread. I hope you are well. I can't read through all these posts, you guys write novels. PM me soon. Thinking of you. Hi all, hope you are well.